AGS: How do timers work?

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drstrip
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AGS: How do timers work?

Post by drstrip » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:53 am

Let's use the 120 minute time for an example. Let's say the voltage threshold is set to 23.4 volts.
Once voltage drops below 23.4, the counter starts counting down. So, after we've been below 23.4V for 30 minutes, the counter now reads 90.
Now voltage goes OVER 23.4V. It appears to me that the counter starts counting UP, presumably until it reaches 120 and then stops. Is this correct?
Now consider the 1440 minute (24 hr) timer. Presumably it behaves the same way, but I'm conjecturing this is an additional rule that causes it to reset to 1440, perhaps voltage reaching the absorb point or float point? Is this correct? If so, which is it?
Thanks.

drstrip
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Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:32 pm
My RE system: 18 x 160W BP3160 modules
2 x VFX3524
2 x MX 60
Mate/Hub/Trimetric
HUP SolarOne batteries SO-6-85-33/23 - 1690AH@24V http://www.hupsolarone.com/
Kohler 15RYG backup
Location: New Mexico - The land of enchantment and 76% of possible sunshine

Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by drstrip » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:55 pm

I asked this ten years ago and got no replies. I'm still looking for an answer and maybe now someone will provide one.

ralphday224
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Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by ralphday224 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:13 am

Maybe ask on the Midnite Solar forum. The brothers Gudgeon have been involved in the design and programming of Trace, Xantrex, Outback and now Midnitesolar products, and they answer many of the technical questions posed.

Ralph

fcwlp
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Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by fcwlp » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:05 am

You are correct drstrip on timer function if you have a Mate3s/3. It looks like you have an earlier Mate. The Mate 2 manual just describes the countdown and not counting up.

Info is on p.28 of the Mate3s Programming Guide, p.26 of the Mate3 Programming Guide,
- If the battery voltage drops below any of these set points, that timer starts counting down
- If the voltage is above the set point, the timer counts up again.
- When any timer reaches zero (0), a start command is sent to the generator.
- The timers automatically reset to maximum when AGS stops the generator, or upon an AGS fault.
drstrip wrote:
Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:53 am
Once voltage drops below 23.4, the counter starts counting down. So, after we've been below 23.4V for 30 minutes, the counter now reads 90.
Now voltage goes OVER 23.4V. It appears to me that the counter starts counting UP, presumably until it reaches 120 and then stops. Is this correct?
It looks like you have confirmed that the programming was consistent between the Mate generations.

retrodaredevil
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Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by retrodaredevil » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am

I have a similar question about the absorb/float/EQ timer for the FX. I want to know when that timer starts and if it's ever reset or starts counting up after it started counting down.

Basically, I'd like to reverse engineer it and figure out how to determine what it should be if I'm just given a battery voltage and the operational mode that the FX is in. I figured it was probably similar to the AGS timer. I'll probably end up having to watch the mate closely next time we do a full charge, but I was wondering if anyone had already figured this out or can point me in the right direction.

fcwlp
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Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by fcwlp » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:35 am

retrodaredevil wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:30 am
Basically, I'd like to reverse engineer it and figure out how to determine what it should be if I'm just given a battery voltage and the operational mode that the FX is in.
You have a quite a few more unknowns in the equation to be able to "reverse engineer" the time.

retrodaredevil
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Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by retrodaredevil » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 am

fcwlp wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:35 am
You have a quite a few more unknowns in the equation to be able to "reverse engineer" the time.
I know that my float voltage is 29.0, my refloat voltage is, 27.2 (or something close to that), and my float time is 1.5 hours. We have an off grid system with a generator. Two FXs are configured to charge the battery in bulk (and probably absorb before float) and also support the AC load so the battery doesn't have any load on it while the generator is running (the inverter is off on both FXs). The "charge" operational mode is shown until that timer reaches 0, then both FXs go into "silent" mode, which just passes thru the generator power to support the AC load (inverter still off).

I'm trying to figure out edge cases. For instance once battery hits 29.0, the timer starts to count down. I've never payed close enough attention to it to see what the timer does when the battery voltage goes down to 28.8, or if it (rarely) gets down to 28.6. I'd like to know if it stops the countdown when it's below 29.0 volts or if it actually counts up. Does it just keep counting down unless it somehow gets to the refloat voltage? I don't actually know what refloat is exactly. I don't own the system that I'm monitoring so I don't have a compete understanding of it, but I have a pretty good idea.

Are there any other unknown variables? I've made a program to monitor the Mate2 and I think there's more than enough information from the Mate2 to determine when that counter started, and if it is configured to stop counting or to count up, I can also detect that pretty easily.

EDIT: My absorb is 29.2, my float is 27.2, refloat is 25.0. I'm trying to detect absorb, not float, which I think I understand now.
Last edited by retrodaredevil on Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fcwlp
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Posts: 176
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by fcwlp » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:34 am

retrodaredevil wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 am
Are there any other unknown variables? I've made a program to monitor the Mate2 and I think there's more than enough information from the Mate2 to determine when that counter started, and if it is configured to stop counting or to count up, I can also detect that pretty easily.
With your ability to observe and I assume record the timers in the Mate 2, you have the ability to understand what the algorithm is. You may want to look at the FXR and Radian operator's manuals as they give more detail on absorb timer function than the FX manual, but I do note that they operate differently. Maybe some of the concepts carried through in the programming.
  • The Radian absorb time is the amount of time spent below the Re-Bulk Voltage up to the programmed Absorb Time limit. see p.29 of Radian Operator Manual
  • The FXR absorb time is set to the Absorb Time limit as soon as the battery voltage drops below the Re-Bulk Voltage. see p.32 of the FXR Operator Manual
I am surprised the logic is different, but that is what the manuals state. Of course the absorb time will also be truncated by the absorb end of amps setting if reached.

retrodaredevil
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Re: AGS: How do timers work?

Post by retrodaredevil » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:46 am

Thank you for looking at those manuals. I probably wouldn't have looked at the FXR manual otherwise. It looks like the information I need is in there.

It looks like the timer starts counting down once it hits the Float voltage and only ever resets if it gets below the refloat voltage.

I would try and figure this out while doing a full charge, but I'm not in charge of when the generator is on and I'm only monitoring the data remotely so I can't access the Mate.

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