AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Discussion about adding energy storage to grid-dependent inverters using OutBack Power technology
Swampdog
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Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:21 am

So my scenario sounds like that described in the Outback document "AC Coupling Freq Shift RevC-1", resulting in GTI shut-down. My problem is, in a full daylight outage, fi the GTI shuts down and there is a delay in the resulting fault clearing, I lose the opportunity to fully recharge the batteries from the array before losing daylight.

Any advice in avoiding this GTI shut-down and SolarEdge fault appreciated, or comments on whether this does seem to be the problem.

S/D

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IanMcCluskey
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Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:39 pm

What about adding a diversion load with a relay to keep the battery just below full?
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:00 pm

Were that I knew of what you speak, but lo, I am but an ignorant homeowner, abandoned by his installer.

I can do settings if you tell me what and where... installing relays... outside my confidence.

Since Outback has addressed Outback/SolarEdge AC Coupled system issues... I would think my problem would not not be unique and resolution attainable... but I have yet to discover how.

As far as "batteries just below full", can that not be attained via settings? Charge was reported at 99%/51.2v when this last occurred (within seconds of outage).

T

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IanMcCluskey
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Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:47 pm

Fair. What is your frequency response time set to? Since it's protected by the 4 digit installer password, I can't see it from OPTICS. This is the setting on the AC Coupling screen that allows 0.02 to 5 seconds.

Changing the nominal "full" voltage targets, in simplistic terms, would just cause your Radian to think the batteries are actually full, and shift the frequency up. I'm thinking if you make the frequency response time interval longer, like 5 seconds, you might find the Solaredge only faults out when the Radian is actually protecting full batteries from its output.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:06 pm

I will check that, but wanted to relay a new issue that just came up before I do so... OpticsRE is reporting that I am Buying, although my batteries are at 100%/59.4V! What the heck is that? I've never seen this before?

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IanMcCluskey
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Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:11 pm

First glance, you changed your high battery cut out voltage to 64 VDC at 2:45PM today. That would the system to keep charging the batteries up to 64V
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:26 pm

Actually, I thought that seemed high, so I lowered it to 57.6 and then thought better of it since the default setting is 64. What setting do you recommend? I notice the High Battery Cut-In default is 60v, and the Cut-out default is 64. Can you recommend settings for both? ASAP?

In the AC Coupling menu there is no reference to frequency, but a setting for Battery Sampling Time... it is set to .02s. Are you recommending I set it to 5.0s?

Thx!!!

S/D

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:53 pm

OK.. as I was concerned... I lowered the High Cut-out to 58 and the Cut-in to 56, which immediately stopped the "Buying" mode. Please recommend permanent settings.

Just noticed... Absorb charging, which had not occurred for weeks, has reappeared, so I assume related to these settings as well.

Oops.. spoke too soon. Buying condition keeps popping up, although batteries show 100%. Voltage is dropping now. Hopefully, that is a correction from settings changes. Crap!

Thx!

S/D

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
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Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:08 pm

I will leave the voltage settings to the manual and the battery manufacturer specifications. There are probably other threads on here about programming for GH batteries, or elsewhere on the internet, from people with more experience than myself.

And yes, Battery Sampling Time, thank you. As long as you have lead acid batteries, 5 seconds works. We are working on a document to help test for and determine the best sample time using a multimeter.

In the meantime, sorry if I already asked, but is your SolarEdge configured for UL 1741 SA requirements?
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:29 pm

Yes.

Currently, weird new problem of in and out of Buying mode for short durations. Batteries are charged.

S/D

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:16 am

If it has the latest firmware, you can adjust the Frequency-Watt configuration to optimize for your particular use case and system. The adjustments are nested under a menu labelled "P(f)", which stands for power as an function of frequency.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:15 am

Radian: 1.6.70
MATE3s: 1.4.2

These seem to be the latest firmware updates. I do not recall seeing a menu labelled "P(f)". Can you be specific about location and via OpticsRE or only MATE3 panel?

Thx!

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:19 am

Sorry, I'm referring to the Solaredge inverter.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by Swampdog » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:28 am

Well... confusing when I experienced this fault issue in the past, all Outback/tech support/forum contacts, my installer and SolarEdge concluded it was not a SolarEdge issue and settings were correct. SolarEdge Tech Support updated the firmware at that time (couple moths ago) as well. Is this setting not as required by the power company (PG&E) anyway?

I assume I should still try changing the Radian Battery Response Time (freq) setting from .02s to 5.0s as you recommended?

S/D

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
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Re: AC coupled - batteries not charging from solar array during outage

Post by IanMcCluskey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 am

Yes, definitely change the Radian response time up to 5 seconds.

PG&E would require the Rule 21 profile. Other places have varying requirements on this and other settings. SolarEdge may have set it to the Rule 21 profile when they updated your firmware.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

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