Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Discussion about adding energy storage to grid-dependent inverters using OutBack Power technology
Swampdog
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Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:41 pm

Greg;

I attempted to change the FNDC settings as you directed, but got this error message, so discarded:

Attribute Tab Message
Voltage High Relay CAUTION: Value is outside the normal charging range. Please check before continuing.
Voltage Low Relay CAUTION: Value is outside the normal charging range. Please check before continuing."

Attached is the GSLC image. Also, what are the breakers at the bottom? The Gen breaker would then be simply to isolate the generator?

I truly appreciate your analysis of my system...sadly lacking from my installer. I know much more than when I started shopping, but am no electrician at all!
Attachments
GSLC breakers 20191024_162814.jpg

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Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Greg T Fordan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:06 pm

I checked your Battery AH setting and Charged Voltage Setting. You are already in 660 and 57.6. Good!
Do not worry about the relay tab. That relay in FNDC is not used in your system. As you see the relay mode is off.


About the breaker for the L1/L2 are these bottom 3 breakers tied in by one handle? That might be it.
To really positively identify, you can open the cover, and trace the output cable coming from SolarEdge inverter. Warning: Exercise extreme caution when opening live panels.

Or you can do this, while the system is selling:
1. Do the step one from the "adding a generator" document
2. Then, do the step 2.

At this point, the system should no longer be selling.
Now, do the step 1 (just step 1!)
If the system is still not selling, that is the breaker for L1/L2


Oh, by the way, yes, the installer did not do a quality job in labeling those breakers.
Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies

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Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Greg T Fordan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:07 am

Greg T Fordan wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:06 pm
Now, do the step 1 (just step 1!)
If the system is still not selling, that is the breaker for L1/L2
Disregard the above. Below is the correction.
1. Turn On the SolarEdge inverter switch that was previously turned off

If the system does not begin to sell with plenty of sun, that is the breaker for L1/L2
Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:27 pm

I will test as directed. I assume you are saying ignore the "warning" message when I changed the FNDC settings? Yes, the bottom 3 breakers are connected via one handle.

So I am now assuming, and will so legibly label:
(The large, legible labels are mine; the smaller are from installer)

1) The top breakers, behind the red lock, are for AC Input
2) The second breaker is for the Grid Input
3) Third is for the Generator
4) Bottom three are L1/L2 (disconnects panels?)

Greg: PG&E has scheduled another power shut-down fiasco in our area for tomorrow (10/26) at 5:00PM, duration of 48 hrs. Therefore, at least being able to run off the generator will be critical. Please let me know if I need to change anything else, and if my breaker labeling seems correct (before testing). However, will be a good test of what I have learned, loads, and settings.

Thank you immensely for your useful assistance! My latest response from Outback Tech Support was "... check that the battery cables are tight and not corroded...". Not helpful.
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GSLC Breakers 20191025_125256.jpg
GSLC breakers 20191025_125241.jpg

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Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Greg T Fordan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:18 pm

SD,
The labels should be good.

Good luck on the next PG&E sponsored power outage. Hopefully you have a better, more positive results this time, although 48 hours of down time will really put your battery bank to a test. Take care of load management, you know your loads.
Just curious, when was the last time the generator was ran and charged the batteries and power the loads? Did the installer even performed a walk-thru on how to do it?
Greg
Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:41 pm

The installer connected and tested the generator many months ago... at my request. Instructions were simply plug it in... no problem. I found the connection instructions myself but have not tried it. Appears simple enough now that I have Outback's instructions and think I know the breakers.

Needing the generator was not our system goal, but having it takes away usage worry. I will be monitoring everything over the weekend. A power outage is not bad if prepared... but when feeling secure due to your expensive backup system and it doesn't perform... very defeating.

In short, after many, many issues, the contractor/installer proved an asshole. Fortunately, the guy who actually did the work was personable and helpful, but also under the influence of his boss. His response to these latest issues were "call technical support", via email. Once the 3-year warranty expired on workmanship and battery components... he refuses to communicate or do any more work. I really need a solar consultant for advisement, but have been unable to locate somebody.

Hence... grateful for your assistance.

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:15 pm

Update:

Ran the L1/L2 test successfully and the breaker is correct as I labeled it.

Went through the generator connection, no problems and returned to Selling state correctly. Never lost power. However, I assume as batteries were already full, I could see no response to the generator connection. Should not the OPticsRE Dashboard show Generator input? Also, no events recorded on OpticsRE.

Minor question: since changing the FNDC settings and Absorb to 4 hrs., battery SOC remains reported at 99% rather than the previous 100%.., any significance?

Planned power shut-off scheduled for 5:00PM so we will see, but feeling much more confident and prepared to learn something from monitoring during the outage.

Thx!

S/D

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:15 am

Day 3 of planned PG&E power shut-off, likely a couple of more days.

System was working fine. Then I tested the generator connection, which also worked fine, but when I shut it down and restarted the SolarEdge, I got an error message :2x22 AC frequency too high) and it would not function and after a couple resets, it would not clear. Shut it off and sent to generate to charge batteries yesterday. That worked fine. I tried SolarEdge again this morning, before the sun was up, and no fault.

I realize this is not Outback's issue, but just FYI.

Currently waiting for sunshine to see how the SolarEdge works.

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:50 pm

Greg: I changed these settings on 10/23, as per your instructions...

Radian GS8048A: changed Absorb charge setting from 1 hr. to to 4 hrs.
FNDC settings change: Battery AH from 400 to 660; Charged voltage from 28.7 to 57.6

We are now experiencing a SolarEdge fault that shuts down solar charging: "2x22 AC Frequency too high".

Our installer looked into the system and declared it must be an Outback system problem,producing voltage problems that shut down the SolarEdge.

Any input on the settings we changed, i.e., could they have caused the fault problem? I am stuck between two suppliers and an out-of-warranty supplier while still unable to charge batteries from producing solar panels.

S/D

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Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Greg T Fordan » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:14 pm

I don't see why changing the FNDC's charged voltage to the correct system voltage will cause that problem. That 28.7V setting is for a 24V system Yours is 48V system.
Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies

Swampdog
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
My RE system: 7.0 kw system
25 x Solarworld SW280 w/SolarEdge Power Optimizers
12 x 220 GH Energycell
Outback GS load center GSLC175-PV-120/240
Outback Radian 8048a
Outback MATE3s
Outback HUB
Outback FlexNet DC
SOLAREDGE SE6000A-US
Briggs & Stratton Elite 5500w generator (8,500 surge; manual connect)

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by Swampdog » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:30 pm

Sounds right to me, nor does it seem changing the Absorb time would instantly cause a fault (in my layman's useless opinion). Any other ideas?

The grid just came back on (until tomorrow we're told), and batteries are charging from array, all working as it's supposed to, with no fault occurring. So clearly it is related to charging the batteries when the grids is down... somehow.

Can run loads from generator or batteries (or grid).
Can charge batteries from generator.
Can charge batteries from grid.
Charging batteries from array when grid is down results in a SolarEdge fault and disrupts charging from array.

SolarEdge refers to Outback, of course, so here i am.

S/D

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Backup system failures, low voltage errors

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:30 am

Locked in favor of this thread: http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic ... c+coupling

Moved to new AC Coupling forum.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

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