SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

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Etn06448
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SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:13 pm

I just commissioned my Skybox 3 days ago and already had the SC - Non-Recoverable Faults Detected : N:25165825, B:4259840, D:4, P:0. On the status page, it saids fault 16384 on the LOAD column.
The inverter shuts down with this fault (which cannot be cleared with the button on the screen) and cannot be turned back on. I have to shut off everything and then reboot to clear the fault and then able to turn the inverter on.

I first thought it's the newer firmware, and since reverted back to the older firmware with the same result. The fault would show up about 3-4 hours when the inverter is active during my TOU schedule. I have turned off sell back to grid just in case and it didn't help.

My max draw has been only 1.5kW.

I have sent a support ticket but didn't hear back yet. Any thoughts from anyone?

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by fcwlp » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:44 pm

Welcome,

I have not installed a Skybox yet but from what I have seen on the forum there is unfortunately no published list of error codes. So we can not be of much help unless someone has experienced the same issue or an Outback support person responds.

raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by raysun » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:58 pm

fcwlp wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:44 pm
Welcome,

I have not installed a Skybox yet but from what I have seen on the forum there is unfortunately no published list of error codes. So we can not be of much help unless someone has experienced the same issue or an Outback support person responds.
The OB application and support folks are hosting a Freeform Friday with a Presentation and QA from the audience. The audience is installers / designers, any question about error codes would be fair game.

A couple of weeks ago they talked about an Error Code app they're working to get online.

Might check in to see if this Friday is on the calendar.

Etn06448
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:51 am

Looking at the event history, the fault always come after two other faults: PCS - NPC Gate Fault and PCS - DAB UVP Battery Fault. It happens during both charging and discharging and does not matter what is the SOC or power usage. I have been running my batteries between 51V and 56V. I have a feeling that I have a defective inverter.

Anyone have any ideas about these faults? I have placed a ticket already, still waiting for some answer.
Thanks for any input.

Mike Curran
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Posts: 1817
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Mike Curran » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:30 pm

I have had PCS - DAB OVP faults caused by my battery voltage going high when grid voltage has gone over the high limit (my utility's fault) while AC coupling, and with my battery already full, the sudden inability to sell to grid pushed all that AC coupled PV into my battery before the Skybox could stop it via frequency dithering. Long story short, OVP must translate as over voltage protection, so maybe you can assume UVP is an undervoltage protection fault. I'd look for any evidence that your battery voltage dipped at the time of the fault.

FWIW - Mike
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

Etn06448
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:30 pm

Mike,
Thanks for the reply. I have some thoughts about the voltage of my batteries. However, it does not make sense to me to have an UVP since my voltage is in the middle of my battery pack range (42-58V) and I'm using it not lower than 50V all this time. Furthermore, it happens during charging and discharging during this range as well. I have 8 batteries running in parallel totaling almost 80kWH thus make me think that it is not my battery per se but rather some voltage sensing circuit in the Skybox. I measured my battery voltage at the Skybox terminal and it is about 0.2V lower than what is reported as the voltage on OpticsRE. I don't know if it has anything to do with these faults.

This wait from Outback support this past week has been quite frustrating.

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EA6LE-ONE
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My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:19 am

Eight batteries in parallel? They are all the same model? You should not have more than 2 batteries in parallel for solar applications. Is not impossible but some batteries will get tired fatter than others and will reduce the health of all quicker. Be sure also that you have the correct wire size from battery to skybox.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Mike Curran » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:24 am

@EA6LE-ONE - If they're lithium batteries then no problem- parallel connection is SOP for Lithium batteries.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

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EA6LE-ONE
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Posts: 285
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:39 am

Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:24 am
@EA6LE-ONE - If they're lithium batteries then no problem- parallel connection is SOP for Lithium batteries.
Don't think they are lithium, should be 10kWH each. Maybe the Tesla ones. $60k in batteries for a skybox, hmm ...

Etn06448
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:14 am

They're LG NMC 51V batteries, rated at 9.8kWH each. They are used ESS backup batteries but still having nearly the original capacity.

I used 4/0 wires and have not see more than 12A from each battery. I'm using such a large bank to reduce amount of daily cycling and getting ready for the California power blackout. Really don't want to sit in the dark for days like last year.

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EA6LE-ONE
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Posts: 285
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:34 am

Etn06448 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:14 am
They're LG NMC 51V batteries, rated at 9.8kWH each. They are used ESS backup batteries but still having nearly the original capacity.

I used 4/0 wires and have not see more than 12A from each battery. I'm using such a large bank to reduce amount of daily cycling and getting ready for the California power blackout. Really don't want to sit in the dark for days like last year.
So they are lithium. If you test them individually for operation and capacity, then should be fine. Be sure you have the Voltage for absorption and float set correctly.
Maybe experiment with one battery at a time loading the inverter close to max to see if the faults are happening on all.

Etn06448
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:34 am

Just check OpticsRE. Same faults again, and it was on grid power with my batteries at 56V.

User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:56 am

check all the cables connected to beakers and the equipment, be sure that nothing is lose. Re-torque all the screws and nuts.

Etn06448
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:59 pm

All connections cables and connections checked, and rechecked

alorentz
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by alorentz » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:58 am

Etn06448 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:51 am
Looking at the event history, the fault always come after two other faults: PCS - NPC Gate Fault and PCS - DAB UVP Battery Fault. It happens during both charging and discharging and does not matter what is the SOC or power usage. I have been running my batteries between 51V and 56V. I have a feeling that I have a defective inverter.

Anyone have any ideas about these faults? I have placed a ticket already, still waiting for some answer.
Thanks for any input.
ditto here. very frustrating for sure and still waiting for some sort of response from outback. I have two skybox's stacked with simpliphi lithiums. it's been working great but every three months or so I get these similar faults that require a hard reset in person.and, during these times, simpliphi's reaches low voltage cutout!
frustrating for sure.

Etn06448
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Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by Etn06448 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:48 pm

alorentz wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:58 am
Etn06448 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:51 am
Looking at the event history, the fault always come after two other faults: PCS - NPC Gate Fault and PCS - DAB UVP Battery Fault. It happens during both charging and discharging and does not matter what is the SOC or power usage. I have been running my batteries between 51V and 56V. I have a feeling that I have a defective inverter.

Anyone have any ideas about these faults? I have placed a ticket already, still waiting for some answer.
Thanks for any input.
ditto here. very frustrating for sure and still waiting for some sort of response from outback. I have two skybox's stacked with simpliphi lithiums. it's been working great but every three months or so I get these similar faults that require a hard reset in person.and, during these times, simpliphi's reaches low voltage cutout!
frustrating for sure.
Any response for you yet? All I'm getting is to wait for a new firmware. I got by with 2 weeks without a fault and now getting the faults back daily again.

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BoMagluyan
OutBack Product Management
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My RE system: SkyBox
12x EnergyCell PLR batteries in an IBR3
no PV

Re: SC - Non-Recoverable Faults

Post by BoMagluyan » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:41 am

N:25165825 is an AC Gate fault, specifically with L2. The rest of the message confirms the battery voltage dropped too low. Without seeing the case notes and/or Optics site, it would be only conjecture as to what caused this event. Could have been a load imbalance, such as a transient single-phase load that either kicked in or disappeared quickly. Could have been the grid or a volt/Var response to it.
Bo Magluyan
OutBack Product Management

OutBack Power Technologies, Inc.
An Enersys Company
1628 W Williams Drive, Phoenix AZ 85027 USA
www.outbackpower.com

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