Power factor mismatch? Grid very low, SB=1

True Hybrid Energy System
fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Power factor mismatch? Grid very low, SB=1

Post by fcwlp » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:31 am

For testing you could try isolating the SkyBox completely and make it look like an off-grid system with only a DC array. A possible logical way to do this and startup sequence from is:
1) Open both 50A breakers in the House PNL
2) Open all breakers in the Barn Main PNL
3) Disconnect phone, CATV, and Ethernet cables
4) Open all breakers in the Barn Aux PNL including the Talesun array
5) Remove the wiring connections (N & G) for the Talesun array from the Barn Aux PNL, observe SkyBox power draw
6) Close 50A breaker in House Main PNL for the SkyBox, observe SkyBox power draw
7) Close 50A breaker in House Main PNL for Barn Main PNL, observe SkyBox power draw
8) In Barn Main PNL, separately close each 20A for Westinghouse array, observe SkyBox power draw
9) In Barn Main PNL, only close breaker powering Envoy
10) In Barn Aux PNL, reconnect N&G wires for Talesun array and observe SkyBox power draw
11) Turn on 20A breaker for Talesun array and observe SkyBox power draw
12) in Barn Aux PNL, close breaker powering Envoy
12) Reconnect phone, CATV, and Ethernet cables one at a time and observe SkyBox power draw
13) Close remaining breakers and observe

Mike, hopefully by step 5 you will have achieved the nominal SkyBox power draw. If you do not see nominal draw, then stop and reconsider what else to disconnect. Starting with step 6 you should observe a higher power draw at some step and we will be able to narrow in on the problem.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Power factor mismatch? Grid very low, SB=1

Post by Mike Curran » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:51 am

Sounds like a plan, thanks!
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Power factor mismatch? Grid very low, SB=1

Post by Mike Curran » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:09 am

At steps 4 & 5, SB power draw was 100 watts. Didn't observe it before that.

As soon as I close the grid supply to SkyBox (step 6), consumption rose to 500 watts.

Basically this is what I've observed before - with battery on and all else disconnected, as soon as I connect the grid, power consumption skyrockets. Only difference this time was disconnecting all the signal cables and the N & G wires on the Talesun array.

I guess i was hoping for something different this time but no joy. Any other suggestions?

Thanks again - it was definitely worth a shot. - Mike

Edit - Note, this was done with the DC array shut off since with it on, for some reason Skybox stops using excessive grid power.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Power factor mismatch? Grid very low, SB=1

Post by fcwlp » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:56 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:09 am
At steps 4 & 5, SB power draw was 100 watts.
Mike Curran wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:09 am
Note, this was done with the DC array shut off since with it on, for some reason Skybox stops using excessive grid power.
So the 100W draw was from only the battery. If the DC array was active, what would the draw be at steps 4, 5 and 6?

When you did the previous generator test, where was your N-G bond; at the generator or the SkyBox? That is about the only thing that I can see different between the generator and the grid setup. As you are now separately derived you could remove the N-G bond by the auto-transformer and make it at the SkyBox.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Power factor mismatch? Grid very low, SB=1

Post by Mike Curran » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:07 pm

So the 100W draw was from only the battery. If the DC array was active, what would the draw be at steps 4, 5 and 6?
I didn't observe this today but in the past, when there's PV comjng in, grid use was normal. Outback has confirmed that is the way it should work, PV reduces Skybox jnternal grid consumption (for some reason). Edit: See this thread, where at about the 7th post it describes Skybox power consumption dropping when there's solar input: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=14520

When you did the previous generator test, where was your N-G bond; at the generator or the SkyBox?
At the Skybox. I'll try changing this tomorrow. Thanks.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

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