Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Discussion about the OutBack OpticsRE system monitor

Moderators: OutBack Moderator Team, OutBack

Post Reply
zbellows
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:49 am
My RE system: Hub 10.3, Mate 3S, 2 Radian Inverters GS8048A, 4 FM80 Charge Controllers, FLEXnet DC

Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by zbellows » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:09 pm

Hi all,

I have what might be a fairly simple question, but I'm new at all this, so I thought I would reach out.

I'm noticing that the "To Grid" data that Optics RE provides does not seem to be matching up closely at all with the "production" readings on my meter. Sometimes the Optics RE data is much higher than the Meter data. Sometimes it is much lower. There does not seem to be a pattern to the difference in these readings.

My understanding is that the "To Grid" data on Optics RE represents only the power that goes from the inverter that is sold back to the grid. It does not include power going to any other place, such as batteries, or the load to power appliances on the property. Therefore, it seems like the power that is sold to the grid should match exactly (or closeish) to the "generation" reading on the meter attached to the power pole. I have one of those older meters that cycles automatically between a consumption, generation, and net meter reading.

There are no other systems on my property which would contribute to the generation reading on the meter. I'm taking the meter readings each day at 10 pm, after the sun has gone down so that the "To Grid" daily value on Optics RE should match the difference between the meter reading today and the meter reading yesterday. Is there any other variable I'm failing to consider, or is it possible that the Optics RE tool is not reporting the "To Grid" information accurately? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

-Zach

provo
Forum Czar
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 pm
My RE system: Sixteen Evergreen EC-120
(4 strings, total 1920W)
Eight Rolls S-550 (2 strings, total ~800Ah @ 24V)
One FM80
One VFXR3524A
Hub 10
Mate3s
FNDC and Trimetric
Location: Sierra foothills

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by provo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:18 pm

zbellows wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:09 pm

I'm noticing that the "To Grid" data that Optics RE provides does not seem to be matching up closely at all with the "production" readings on my meter.

....it seems like the power that is sold to the grid should match exactly (or closeish) to the "generation" reading on the meter attached to the power pole.
Are those "production" and "generation" readings actually the same reading on the same (utility) meter?

I don't sell to the grid, but I consistently see the Optics "From Grid" to be 10-15% lower than what the utility says I draw from them. I trust the utility meter. The various AC power readings shown in Optics are notoriously "approximate".

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1788
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by Mike Curran » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:54 am

My understanding is that the "To Grid" data on Optics RE represents only the power that goes from the inverter that is sold back to the grid. It does not include power going to any other place, such as batteries, or the load to power appliances on the property. 
These systems have no way of knowing where power goes, to grid or to load, once it leaves the inverter, so the data is somewhat approximate. "To grid" data does include power to your loads that are connected on the AC IN side of your inverter, whereas the "To Load" data only includes power to loads on the AC OUT side. And if the AC OUT side goes to a critical loads panel that's isolated from grid, then the To Loads figure is truly what goes to those loads, but it does not include any power to loads on the AC IN side. Hope this helps.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by sodamo » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:22 am

I have an old fashioned house watt meter between system and distribution panel. I’ve stopped comparing its values to OpticsRE, just never figured out the disparity. One of the main reasons I physically visit the system every morning. Wish I had a meter that would log the useage, especially one that would reset at midnight to match Outback. Anyone know if such a meter is reasonably available?
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1788
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by Mike Curran » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:46 pm

Wish I had a meter that would log the useage
I have the older discontinued version of this product: https://emporiaenergy.com/how-the-vue-e ... tor-works/ The earlier version cost about $100 & came with 8 - 20A CTs plus 2 - 50A CTs. I don't know the price of the newer version but with all the CTs that come with it, it's pretty easy to measure whatever you want. It will also give you a bar graph by the minute, hour, day, week, month or year. Here's a daily graph example for grid power going to my Skybox: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DI3t3D ... p=drivesdk I should note that since I'm grid-tied the graph data is showing net $ which also accounts for any sellback to grid
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by sodamo » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:12 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:46 pm
Wish I had a meter that would log the useage
I have the older discontinued version of this product: https://emporiaenergy.com/how-the-vue-e ... tor-works/ The earlier version cost about $100 & came with 8 - 20A CTs plus 2 - 50A CTs. I don't know the price of the newer version but with all the CTs that come with it, it's pretty easy to measure whatever you want. It will also give you a bar graph by the minute, hour, day, week, month or year. Here's a daily graph example for grid power going to my Skybox: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DI3t3D ... p=drivesdk I should note that since I'm grid-tied the graph data is showing net $ which also accounts for any sellback to grid
Mike, that looks interesting. The $$ numbers generated have no value to me, but if I can see total kwh for a 24 hr period ending at midnight (2359) that would be great. Will research a bit more, but leaning toward trying it. Thinking I might also be able to monitor subpanels.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1788
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by Mike Curran » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:05 pm

Hey David - You can also monitor kwh, as shown here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rieJZW ... p=drivesdk
In fact there's a boatload of variables available: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rojVUI ... p=drivesdk
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by sodamo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:51 am

Thanks, Mike
Ordered a set off Amazon.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:42 am

i got the Gen 2 Emporia Vue Smart Home Energy Monitor and have 2 of the first generation. the gen 2 supposed to be better as it also keeps track of the voltage on l1 and l2. While I had the first generation installed on main output of my radians the readings at night where very close of the value in OpticsRE out from battery. with gen2 i see a bit of discrepancy up and down. there might be a bit of difference as info from mate might be delayed at times and some data from certain hour might be logged in the next hour.

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by sodamo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:59 am

Interesting. I will be setting mine up to monitor the mains from Radians to main distribution panel and the other sensors on my sub panels and water pump - all 240 circuits.
I currently have the old fashion house type watt meter on the mains and 1 subpanel so I will be comparing s well as comparing to OpticsRE
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:16 pm

the gen1 are troublesome to connect them to wi-fi. and if the wi-fi connection is down the data is not logged. the best will always be a proper meter that the power company use. i didn't integrate one when i designed my system as i thought the radian will measure the power well. i found the measurements on radians to be about 10% lower. on my old VFX3648s is about 30% off.

User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: Optics RE readings not matching up with Meter Readings

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:27 pm

i just checked the power usage on the gen 2 vue and is almost the same with the readings from radians. the gen1 had a bigger difference and in line with the standard house meters. it might be that both calculate the power usage with the fix voltage. the gen 2 vue calculate with the actual voltage.

Post Reply