EnergyCell 200RE AGM Charging Questions - Repost

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EnergyCell 200RE AGM Charging Questions - Repost

Postby OurayMountainMan on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:56 pm

I am working to fine tune my charging cycle for my 8 ea. EnergyCell 200RE batteries (two strings @48V) and have a few questions. At present, I only use a generator to charge the batteries - no other charge sources are connected.

1) I have read two different maximum charge current specs for the 200RE - one is 30ADC per string and the other is 50ADC per string. Anybody know which is correct?. I am currently using the 30ADC value to be safe. I do notice that my battery temp does not rise much from ambient when charging at 30ADC.

2) How do I know when the 200REs are fully charged? I do have a FNDC in the system and it is set to terminate the charge when the end amps are < 7. I have set the FNDC up using the "FLEXnet DC Programming & Guidelines" document. One method is to measure the open circuit terminal voltage at rest, but this is not very convenient when needing to wait for 24 hours of battery rest time before the measurements are valid.

3) Is it bad to re-bulk the AGM battery bank frequently? To insure a full charge, I have repeated the bulk charging cycle on a couple of occasions - start a bulk cycle in the morning, wait the charging cycle to fully complete (I have no float time programmed since I am on a generator) and then restart the bulk charging cycle and wait for it to complete. During these charging cycles, I see no significant rise in battery temperature (maybe a couple of degrees). Any thoughts?

4) What is the expected terminal voltage for the EnergyCell 200RE at 100% SOC and at 50% SOC? I have read many articles, but most seem to focus on flooded lead acid battery technology.

Thanks,

OurayMountainMan
OurayMountainMan
Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:46 am
My RE system: FlexPower-2 w/2 ea. VFXR3648A stacked for 240V split phase
2 x 4 ea EnergyCell 200RE (48V) w/Integrated Battery Rack & FNDC
Honda EU6500is w/Atkinson GSCM
Mate3
Totally Off Grid - No PV at this time

Re: EnergyCell 200RE AGM Charging Questions - Repost

Postby shelton on Tue May 02, 2017 4:45 pm

Hi - did you ever get an answer to your questions? I look forward to a battery guru on here correcting me if I am wrong(and quickly, please!) but based on the battery documentation and my conversations with Outback tech support :
1) 200RE max amps per string are 53.4A according to the manual and data sheet. 30A is the limit for the 106RE.
2) It''s good you used the FNDC white paper, I have found the FNDC to be tricky to set up right in the past! FNDC parameter thoughts : Charged voltage at 57.2(Absorb 57.6 for the RE200), Charge Factor 90%(RE200 is 90% roundtrip efficient when new - adjust with age). I have been recommended to Disable Charge Termination Control in the past but that was implied for systems with PV charging sources using an Outback CC networked on a hub with an FNDC connected. But I would guess here that in your case it would be safer to leave that function disabled also. Your end amps you set at 2% - this setpoint just governs the FNDC SOC meter accuracy(and "days since parameters met") not your inverter/charger, of course as long as Charge Termination Control is disabled. I understand that the "Time" in the FNDC setup menu should be left at 1 minute(not 100% sure here though - I hope someone chimes in about this!) but I wonder if it should be left at the Absorb time setpoint of your charging source(inverters).
3) How frequently? I assume you just charge once daily? That SHOULD be good enough : no need for a rebulk IMHO.
4) 200RE fully charged at rest are 12.8V. 50% SOC at rest should be 12.35-12.4V(not 100% sure here!). Under load you could be seeing as little as 44.16V @ 75% DOD and 46.32V @ 50% DOD.

Anyway a few months have passed since you posed these questions so if you have some answers please share also!
cheers,

david
shelton
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:19 pm
My RE system: Outback Power FX3048T
Midnite Solar The Kid
3 x Topoint 190W 72Cell
4 Ritar 100Ah
Outback Power AXS port
Outback Power Mate3
Grid tied using HBX currently

Re: EnergyCell 200RE AGM Charging Questions - Repost

Postby OurayMountainMan on Wed May 03, 2017 10:01 am

David,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I sincerely appreciate your time to answer my questions. I have disabled Charge Termination Control as I found that to be the cause of my charge cycle never reaching my specified max absorption time. Your recommendation of setting the charge factor to 90% is interesting. I had not assumed that the charging efficiency was quite that low when the batteries are new. I will adjust and give it a try. With regards to how often I charge - I have the Mate 3 AGS function set to start the generator when the battery SOC reaches 50%. Given our average daily power consumption and the capacity of our batteries, that occurs about once every 2 days (2 days of autonomy). I obviously am trying to minimize the run time on our generator, maximize the life of our batteries (charge cycles * time between charges) and yet insure that the batteries receive a full charge when a generator/charge cycle is required. I may try a new strategy this summer (this is primarily a summer only off-grid cabin application) that runs the generator every night for a shorter period of time (DOD would be less when charging every day). This will probably result in longer generator run time, but may allow me to run the generator in "Eco Mode" which should be more fuel efficient.

If you have a chance, can you take a look at another thread I posted http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8923 regarding batteries not warming during charging? I am interested in your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks again!

Keith
OurayMountainMan
Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:46 am
My RE system: FlexPower-2 w/2 ea. VFXR3648A stacked for 240V split phase
2 x 4 ea EnergyCell 200RE (48V) w/Integrated Battery Rack & FNDC
Honda EU6500is w/Atkinson GSCM
Mate3
Totally Off Grid - No PV at this time

Re: EnergyCell 200RE AGM Charging Questions - Repost

Postby shelton on Tue May 16, 2017 3:53 pm

Hi Keith - no problem! Sorry that I am not on here enough! I would think that your best fuel efficiency or kWh per litre would be via charging from 50% DOD not 75% DOD as you are going to do one abosrb=>float every 2 days instead of every day which is the least efficient part of the charge cycle in relation to generator time. However would being able to use Eco mode or not make such a big difference? Why couldn't you use it anyway? You should test the idea!
If I was using the cabin all summer months(6?), I would try and get an array up there for that system this year so you can keep the batteries trickle charged in the winter and enjoy the system without depending on a generator in the summer! After the expense of the batteries, inverter and BOS a small array is a small incremental cost these days....
shelton
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:19 pm
My RE system: Outback Power FX3048T
Midnite Solar The Kid
3 x Topoint 190W 72Cell
4 Ritar 100Ah
Outback Power AXS port
Outback Power Mate3
Grid tied using HBX currently


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