Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

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Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby Benjammin on Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:21 am

Hi All,

One--FP2 VFXR3648A 7.2KW
Includes Two FM80 FlexMax Charge Controllers
Includes Mate 3S
Twenty Four--2V Rolls Surrette Batteries S-1860--1510 Amps at C-20
Fifteen Solarworld 295 W panels
One Generator--Honda EU 7000is--5 kW continuous

Recently the batteries reached 50 percent State of Charge (SOC) during a more cloudy period. The solar was inadequate to rebuild the batteries to full charge, so we tried to use the generator to charge the battery bank. Charging amps was limited to 10-20 amps or less than 1 kW.

Automatic Generator Start is not set up because the generator does not has a control package for that. It is wired to the AC input of the Flex Power Two

What settings do I use to increase the charging amps to 50 amps or greater when the battery SOC is low?

Thanks
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My RE system: FLEXpower FP2 VFXR3648A prewired kit
Dual VFXR3648A inverters
Two FM80 charge controllers
15 solarworld 295 w modules (5 strings x 3)
One micro-hydro turbine 24 V- 500w Max
24 2V Batteries Rolls Surrette S-1860 1445 amphr

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby petertearai on Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:03 am

increase charger AC input amps on the mate.
2220 pv. fm80. 12 times 2 volt exc shoto lead carbon 450 AH 24 volts. victron battery monitor. outback fxr 2000 watt inverter
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Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby jbakker on Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:45 am

Your setup can do 45 AMPS DC per inverter. The default setting in my Mate3 is 18 AMPS AC Input each inverter. Max is 20 amps.
I suggest that if you don't have a copy of Mate3S manual that you download it and read. It will tell you where in the Mate3s screens to do this. I know how if I am standing in front. I can tell you how if you have a OPTICS RE site setup.
Since you have a 5 KW generator I would not set her to max charge settings as your going to load that generator down to its knees.
Good idea to leave room for any loads as well so that if a big load does come on when charging you do bog the generator down as well. The inverters should scale the charge rate back if this happens but i still like to leave some head room.

The above info is just my 2 cents worth.
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My RE system: 2 VFX3648 Inverters 2 FM60 150VDC Charge Controllers Mate3 2.4 KW of panels 15kw JC Onan NG Generator made in 1975 I love that generator almost as much as my wife.
6 banks of 15 cells each from a 2017 Chevy Volt. Parallel for the AMP Hour. 6 Chinese made BMS systems (install to be happening soon)

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby JRHill on Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:07 am

jbakker wrote:going to load that generator down to its knees..


Whatever you do for settings, always listen to your genset and you will hear what is needed. The genset connects softly so if it kicks out while connecting that is not good. If a new load comes in and the genset kicks out that is not good. During a run if your inverter kicks the generator connection off it is to save itself - do not use this function as a substitute for a fuse/breaker. It's like tuning your car with a sledgehammer.

The inverter's roll back of charging current to meet a load is not instantaneous. Surge loads, even from an energy efficient appliance will cause the inverter to kick out if set too tight. Depending on the load and the supply, the only option is to oversize the genset and hope it can respond timely to the surge or you manually time your loads to not happen while charging - or to set the charging current so low it'll run much longer than reasonable when surge loads might occur.

I've been tuning this procedure for years and every install would be different. Bottom line is to never have the inverter in charge mode kick out - unless you have a spare or two.
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-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby jbakker on Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:32 am

What JRHill said is very true and all good advice:)


I am very tuned into my system.
Course i have a 15 KW generator and cant bring it to its knees.
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My RE system: 2 VFX3648 Inverters 2 FM60 150VDC Charge Controllers Mate3 2.4 KW of panels 15kw JC Onan NG Generator made in 1975 I love that generator almost as much as my wife.
6 banks of 15 cells each from a 2017 Chevy Volt. Parallel for the AMP Hour. 6 Chinese made BMS systems (install to be happening soon)

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby JRHill on Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:32 pm

jbakker wrote:Course i have a 15 KW generator and cant bring it to its knees.


That's all well and good, to have an appropriately over sized genset. But in my case I 'ran' for several months of the winter with barely any solar and the big genset was kicking my butt for fuel to charge batteries, esp during the 85-90+ SOC part/absorb. This was charging but with the gen set at high idle with little load. That's when I bought an inverter generator. AS THE CHARGING LOAD DROPPED, SO DID THE RPMs. The result was a late model, fuel efficient engine running only at the rpm needed to generate the the draw at hand. The downside is it takes even a bit more to spin up for larger loads. But I saved a bunch++ on fuel. For example in the winter, inverter gen running with the batteries charged full, I let it go 'cause I'M THAT MUCH MORE FULL IN THE MORNING. It's just sitting there at idle and covering everything-its not worth getting out of the chair until bed time. I don't even consider the run time any more. Fuel savings is less than half. But don't fire up a big load on this unit. Nope, foul, you can't have it both ways.
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby blackswan555 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:53 pm

Recently the batteries reached 50 percent State of Charge (SOC)
Please do not take "that number" as a realistic State of charge in your actual batteries, it is a guess, that you have to take so many things into consideration,,,, its a guess (ok, it applies to all battery monitors, total guess, it depends on so many things, It WILL never be correct) read your SGs and calibrate "what it is telling you" to what you know SGs are gold standard, SOCs by any battery monitor are,,,,,,, is a guess based on the information "you" have put in and will vary day to day anyway
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
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Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby blackswan555 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:57 pm

A little item that NO battery monitor takes into consideration,,,, Well a very big item if your want try to count amps in and out ,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert%27s_law

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
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Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby JRHill on Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:06 pm

Ah darn. Now my conscience is bothering me. Time to recalibrate the the FNDC.
----
10 minutes later I check it: 1.230 (first reading) is at 92% SOC. So I've been under charging for a while. No surprise, I was expecting it and frankly I expected a greater drift. I last recalibrated early this spring at full SOC per the SG. It happens and it is expected.
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Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:12 pm
Location: South central WA
My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby jbakker on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:08 pm

In regards to the Generator comment.

My unit is NG gas powered, and its pretty cheap at the moment. I know for a fact my unit is thirsty. It draws the same fuel amount at 50 percent load as at 100 percent load. I can only load to about 5.5 kw incoming AC. I do have a plan for the winter when i run the Onan a lot more.
I am getting a 6 KW electric heater installed into my duct work for the furnace. When the generator kicks on after a 5 min delay I will have the furnace blower kick on and the electric heater come on as well. This will make things a little more efficient as I will be loading the generator up more.

In thinking back i should have bought the 7.5 KW baby brother the JB instead of the JC that I have. But the JC came up for sale and needed another unit to replace the Generac.

In regards to the FNDC i have one installed but cant use it as I need a 10 port hub and only have a 4 port. If any body has one for a cheap price let me know.
I would love to see how it deals with the Chevy Volt Battery that I am using. No offence Outback but the price of a new 10 port HUB is a bit much at this time.
jbakker
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Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:47 am
Location: Goderich Ontario Canada
My RE system: 2 VFX3648 Inverters 2 FM60 150VDC Charge Controllers Mate3 2.4 KW of panels 15kw JC Onan NG Generator made in 1975 I love that generator almost as much as my wife.
6 banks of 15 cells each from a 2017 Chevy Volt. Parallel for the AMP Hour. 6 Chinese made BMS systems (install to be happening soon)

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby JRHill on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:56 pm

jbakker wrote:... unit is NG gas powered, and its pretty cheap at the moment. I know for a fact my unit is thirsty. It draws the same fuel amount at 50 percent load as at 100 percent load. I can only load to about 5.5 kw incoming AC. I do have a plan for the winter when i run the Onan a lot more.
I am getting a 6 KW electric heater installed into my duct work for the furnace.


Hmm, gen at 50% load uses the same amount of fuel as at 100%. You have 5.5kw of output from the gen and are installing 6kw of electric heat?
User avatar
JRHill
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Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:12 pm
Location: South central WA
My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby Benjammin on Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:01 pm

Thanks All!! I have some reading and research to do. I thought I changed the AC Input Amps to higher but apparently i did not.

Do I need to change the AC input for each inverter?

jbakker,
I can tell you how if you have a OPTICS RE site setup.
I do have OPTICS set up, so I would welcome that. Thanks
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Benjammin
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:52 pm
My RE system: FLEXpower FP2 VFXR3648A prewired kit
Dual VFXR3648A inverters
Two FM80 charge controllers
15 solarworld 295 w modules (5 strings x 3)
One micro-hydro turbine 24 V- 500w Max
24 2V Batteries Rolls Surrette S-1860 1445 amphr

Re: Settings to increase charging Amps by generator

Postby jbakker on Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:25 am

JRHill wrote:
jbakker wrote:... unit is NG gas powered, and its pretty cheap at the moment. I know for a fact my unit is thirsty. It draws the same fuel amount at 50 percent load as at 100 percent load. I can only load to about 5.5 kw incoming AC. I do have a plan for the winter when i run the Onan a lot more.
I am getting a 6 KW electric heater installed into my duct work for the furnace.


Hmm, gen at 50% load uses the same amount of fuel as at 100%. You have 5.5kw of output from the gen and are installing 6kw of electric heat?



At max charge from the inverters is 5.5 KW and 6 KW from the electric heat unit will give me 11 KW on the generator.
Now I may have to stage another heater in there so that when the charge rate goes down on the inverters it will come on to make the generator work hard.

I'm glad the beast is not gasoline powered
jbakker
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Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:47 am
Location: Goderich Ontario Canada
My RE system: 2 VFX3648 Inverters 2 FM60 150VDC Charge Controllers Mate3 2.4 KW of panels 15kw JC Onan NG Generator made in 1975 I love that generator almost as much as my wife.
6 banks of 15 cells each from a 2017 Chevy Volt. Parallel for the AMP Hour. 6 Chinese made BMS systems (install to be happening soon)


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