Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

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Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby cbalbrecht on Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:03 pm

Greetings. I have a FP1-4 with a GVFX3648, a MATE3, and two banks of Sam's Club GC2 (Energizer) 6V Golf Cart batteries, for a total of 214Ah. The batteries typically fluctuate between 99% and 100%, based on the following charge parameters:

Absorb: 59.6V
Absorb Time: 4-hours
Float: 53.2V
Float Time: 1-hour
Re-Float Voltage: 52.0V
EQ Voltage: 62.4V
EQ Time: 1-hour

Sell Voltage 53.6V

My question is this. Why am I only selling +/- 60% of my Production back To Grid?

Solar 5.7kWh - To Grid 3.4kWh - From Grid 0.1kWh - To Load 0kWh - From Battery 0.02kWh - To Battery 0.14kWh
cbalbrecht
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Location: Cheyenne, WY
My RE system: FP1-4 - GVFX3648, MATE3, FlexNet DC, HUB4, FM80, 16 Sam's Club (Energizer) 6V GC2 107Ah Golf Cart Batteries, and SIX Canadian Solar 235W panels (1,410W).

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby Mike Curran on Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:34 pm

Your float voltage, being lower than your sell voltage, is preventing your system from reaching the sell setpoint.
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby cbalbrecht on Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:39 pm

Hi Mike;

Thank you for your reply. I wish it was that simple. I am selling. On average, only +/- 60% of what I'm producing is actually going back to the grid. Please see the attached screenshot. Also notice that the light green bar in the graph is substantially lower than the dark green bar. I'm trying to get the light green bar as close to "even" as possible. Sell Voltage doesn't seem to have any effect on that.

Curtis
Attachments
Screenshot.png
Only 71.5% going to the grid. And, that's a a high number.
cbalbrecht
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Cheyenne, WY
My RE system: FP1-4 - GVFX3648, MATE3, FlexNet DC, HUB4, FM80, 16 Sam's Club (Energizer) 6V GC2 107Ah Golf Cart Batteries, and SIX Canadian Solar 235W panels (1,410W).

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby Mike Curran on Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:26 pm

You're right Curtis, it's definitely not that simple. Sorry for the glib answer...

I took your data and resketched it schematically, and it really doesn't add up. You've got 3kwh coming in from solar and only 1.8kwh going to the grid, meanwhile your battery shows .13 in and .02 out... My guess is that the difference between the 3kwh solar and the 1.8kwh to grid is somehow being used in the battery, but I can't explain why the battery in and out values don't reflect this.

20170408_172819.jpg


I guess I have the same question for my own system (screen shot below). I never did understand why the power flows "to" and "from" battery are so low, given the diff between "solar" and "to grid". Maybe someone else can weigh in...? - Mike

Capture.JPG
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby cbalbrecht on Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:03 pm

Screenshot - 09APR17.png
At 5:02PM - SOLAR 7.2Kw vs. To Grid 4.7Kw


Hi Mike;

There was nothing "glib" about your answer. I've worked in the IT industry for 22+ years. From a tech support perspective, it's amazing how many people have to be walked through "is it plugged in?", "Is it turned on?", "Have you rebooted it?", and so on. Sell Voltage is the first thing that should be looked at. :-) I'm just grateful that someone/you took the time to respond. Thank You.

Looking at your graph, I would be all Rain Man/OCD, seeing so much black and maroon. Unfortunately, I'm not educated enough to know how to tweak the settings and make it right. Mostly for future troubleshooting, I've added a new graph (09APR17), that will hopefully allow for the Fine Tuning that I am looking for. In the mean time, just for comparison, notice that my graph doesn't have any black or maroon. That's probably because I'm strictly using my system as a warm standby, and selling everything back that isn't keeping the batteries topped off. Is your system being used differently? I assume that would account for different performance characteristics???

Curtis
cbalbrecht
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Cheyenne, WY
My RE system: FP1-4 - GVFX3648, MATE3, FlexNet DC, HUB4, FM80, 16 Sam's Club (Energizer) 6V GC2 107Ah Golf Cart Batteries, and SIX Canadian Solar 235W panels (1,410W).

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby Mike Curran on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:44 pm

Hey Curtis - My system supplies a separate critical loads panel (fridge, well pump, sump pump, hydronic heating pumps, etc.) that gets backup power when the grid is down. But normally these loads are fed from the grid through my FX's, and the black and red bars reflect those flows. I'm kinda puzzled how you have your system set up since it doesn't show ANY grid inflow or to load data. Seems like the only way that could happen would be if you don't have grid AC connected to the input of your FX...

Anyway, still puzzled about where those 2.3kwh's between 6.9 solar and 4.6 to grid are going. The battery accumulated flows sure don't account for it: 0.01 from battery, 0.2 to battery. To repeat, I have the same question for my system. Sure wish some expert on OpticsRE would lend us a hand here.

- Mike
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby cbalbrecht on Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:31 pm

Hi Mike;

Oh yea. That separate critical loads panel would definitely account for the loads shown in black and maroon. In my setup, my AC IN is connected to the grid. That allows me to buy and/or sell as needed. And, my AC OUT is connected to the grid with a breaker interlock. If the AC IN in enabled, the AC OUT is disabled. That way, if there is a grid failure, I can manually switch over to OFF-GRID operation, by moving the interlock.

Unfortunately, my GVFX3648 is a DISCONTINUED model. Outback has released the new VFXR3648A, to replace it. The VFXR3648A now does GRID-ZERO, and supports Lithium-Ion batteries. My GVFX3648 doesn't. So, if in the future, I can afford to part with ~$1,750.00, I'll consider buying one. Or, If I hit the lottery (~$8,200), I'd love to have a Radian FPR-8048A. Either way, GRID-ZERO is the holy grail. The settings in the MATE3 change when a GRID-ZERO inverter is installed/recognized. That would definitely solve some of my problems.

Curtis
cbalbrecht
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Cheyenne, WY
My RE system: FP1-4 - GVFX3648, MATE3, FlexNet DC, HUB4, FM80, 16 Sam's Club (Energizer) 6V GC2 107Ah Golf Cart Batteries, and SIX Canadian Solar 235W panels (1,410W).

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby sparksalot on Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:42 am

Curtis,

Have you set up/configured the shunts in the Mate settings correctly?
How they get configured determines what or how the readings are displayed.

HTH,

Larry
sparksalot
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My RE system: FLEXpower TWO VFXR3648A Grid-Tied and Battery Backup Hybrid

Traction battery FLA 48 volt 805Ahr.

30 SolarWorld 245w mono

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby Mike Curran on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:54 pm

I posted a question to the OpticsRE team through the "Send us a message" tool located in the lower lefthand corner of the Optics dashboard screen. I think the response is relevant to this topic:

My initial question: Why do the to and from battery figures not make sense? I.e., for my system today 4/12/17 at 6:30pm, from battery for "week of" reads 0.11kwh. Yet for "3 days ending" it's 0.64kwh and for "day of" its 0.14kwh. Shouldn't the number for "week of" be the largest, then "3 days ending", then "day of" smallest? Similar anomalies for to battery. Thought this was a cumulative figure.

Optics response: It should be a cumulative figure. Thanks for the information, I've put together a bug report based on your numbers.

Bryce Millet
Software Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies

So it appears there's a bug in the way the to and from battery numbers are calculated. That might explain where the missing kwh's are going. You may be getting the max kwh's to grid, the remainder are keeping your battery afloat. Maybe...
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby cbalbrecht on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:09 pm

sparksalot wrote:Curtis,

Have you set up/configured the shunts in the Mate settings correctly?
How they get configured determines what or how the readings are displayed.

HTH,

Larry


Hi Larry;

I didn't see anywhere in the MATE3 setting to configure the shunts. However, in the FlexNET DC, I do see the shunts listed. Unfortunately, the only configurable setting is ENABLED/DISABLED. Am I looking in the wrong place?

R/,

Curtis

FlexNetDC - Shunt B.png
cbalbrecht
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Cheyenne, WY
My RE system: FP1-4 - GVFX3648, MATE3, FlexNet DC, HUB4, FM80, 16 Sam's Club (Energizer) 6V GC2 107Ah Golf Cart Batteries, and SIX Canadian Solar 235W panels (1,410W).

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby cbalbrecht on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:33 pm

Mike Curran wrote:I posted a question to the OpticsRE team through the "Send us a message" tool located in the lower lefthand corner of the Optics dashboard screen. I think the response is relevant to this topic:

My initial question: Why do the to and from battery figures not make sense? I.e., for my system today 4/12/17 at 6:30pm, from battery for "week of" reads 0.11kwh. Yet for "3 days ending" it's 0.64kwh and for "day of" its 0.14kwh. Shouldn't the number for "week of" be the largest, then "3 days ending", then "day of" smallest? Similar anomalies for to battery. Thought this was a cumulative figure.

Optics response: It should be a cumulative figure. Thanks for the information, I've put together a bug report based on your numbers.

Bryce Millet
Software Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies

So it appears there's a bug in the way the to and from battery numbers are calculated. That might explain where the missing kwh's are going. You may be getting the max kwh's to grid, the remainder are keeping your battery afloat. Maybe...



Hi Mike;

Here are my Ah to date, for the month of April. Almost nothing is coming from or going to the batteries. But, there is a huge gap (864.61Ah/41.5kWh) between the SOLAR and the To Grid. That sure is a whopper of a bug. Please keep me updated as to the results of the "bug report".

R/,

Curtis

Ah - Month To Date.png

kWh - Month To Date.png
cbalbrecht
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Cheyenne, WY
My RE system: FP1-4 - GVFX3648, MATE3, FlexNet DC, HUB4, FM80, 16 Sam's Club (Energizer) 6V GC2 107Ah Golf Cart Batteries, and SIX Canadian Solar 235W panels (1,410W).

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby sparksalot on Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:56 am

cbalbrecht wrote:
sparksalot wrote:Curtis,

Have you set up/configured the shunts in the Mate settings correctly?
How they get configured determines what or how the readings are displayed.

HTH,

Larry


Hi Larry;

I didn't see anywhere in the MATE3 setting to configure the shunts. However, in the FlexNET DC, I do see the shunts listed. Unfortunately, the only configurable setting is ENABLED/DISABLED. Am I looking in the wrong place?

R/,

Curtis
FlexNetDC - Shunt B.png


Curtis,

There is a menu in the Mate3 device itself, not in OpticRE, where you must select what function or direction each of the 3 shunts is wired to so as to know whether value of each shunt is to buy or sell or to add or subtract in order to get correct current readings to do the calculations. The "bug" will have a bad effect when not performing the correct math process, though. :roll:
sparksalot
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Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:31 am
My RE system: FLEXpower TWO VFXR3648A Grid-Tied and Battery Backup Hybrid

Traction battery FLA 48 volt 805Ahr.

30 SolarWorld 245w mono

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby Mike Curran on Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:17 pm

sparksalot wrote:There is a menu in the Mate3 device itself, not in OpticRE, where you must select what function or direction each of the 3 shunts is wired to so as to know whether value of each shunt is to buy or sell or to add or subtract in order to get correct current readings to do the calculations. The "bug" will have a bad effect when not performing the correct math process, though. :roll:


Sparksalot, I can't find a reference to this in the Mate3 programming manual :?:

Curtis, I think you're right, the Mate3 only gives you the enable/disable function for each shunt.

I don't think they are configurable. The FlexnetDC manual is very specific about shunt wiring polarity. If a shunt's sensing leads are wired "backwards" then the current indication for that shunt will be backwards.

I just added a shunt for my charge controller but before i did, my system was already measuring and accounting for current flow from my MX60. With the new shunt, I don't think my system is measuring or accounting for charge controller current any differently than it did before, I just have a better measurement (for my own use) now than before.

If I'm wrong about this, please somebody/anybody :!: give me the straight scoop. Thanks.
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby sparksalot on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:07 pm

I'll have to find this so to make it not be confusing for everyone who is trying to get this computing properly.
The shunt need to be configured to know if it is an inverter/charger or a charge controller to know whether it is to add or subtract the currents/aHrs to and from the battery totals so to know the true state of charge of the batteries at any given time. :smile:
sparksalot
OutBack Virtuoso
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:31 am
My RE system: FLEXpower TWO VFXR3648A Grid-Tied and Battery Backup Hybrid

Traction battery FLA 48 volt 805Ahr.

30 SolarWorld 245w mono

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby EMCF on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:41 am

There is an obvious mistake in Curtis' from Bat and To Bat numbers. Ideally, in your system with no load, if your solar production is 3kwh, your To Bat numbers should be equal or almost equal 3kwh. Your From Bat numbers should be equal or almost equal to 1.6kwh which is the number from your To Grid (Sell) numbers.
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Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby sparksalot on Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:55 pm

sparksalot wrote:I'll have to find this so to make it not be confusing for everyone who is trying to get this computing properly.
The shunt need to be configured to know if it is an inverter/charger or a charge controller to know whether it is to add or subtract the currents/aHrs to and from the battery totals so to know the true state of charge of the batteries at any given time. :smile:


Following up...

The Shunts, (3), can be Enabled or Disabled in the Battery Setup.
However to be selected as for whether being either a inverter or as a charge controller it is only accessed in the Configuration Wizard feature.
It is indeed important to get them right for one way is additive and the other way is subtractive.

HTH
sparksalot
OutBack Virtuoso
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:31 am
My RE system: FLEXpower TWO VFXR3648A Grid-Tied and Battery Backup Hybrid

Traction battery FLA 48 volt 805Ahr.

30 SolarWorld 245w mono

Re: Fine Tune Solar vs. To Grid Settings

Postby Mike Curran on Wed May 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Per Bryce Millet's post on the forum today, looks like there's a fix coming for the incorrect to and from battery data in Optics.
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.


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