Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

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fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by fcwlp » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:28 pm

grunt wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:36 am
So both charger controllers have their own line as you can see in the pic. There is no rail for the third charger to land, as i am adding it after the pre-wired system is already configured. Now looking at it, it does not look like that big of a deal as the bars only server as a rail for the breaker and the panel to meet. So I guess I just need to deiced how I want the to do that, correct ?
Hi John, the two terminal bars you point to with (here, here in the figure) are for the PV+ terminals (i.e., the positive leads coming from the array). In the pre-wired systems there is a wire coming from these PV+ terminal blocks to the individual PV Input breakers. I would take your PV+ wire coming from your new array, put a ring terminal on it and attach directly to the new PV input breaker you will be installing.
grunt wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:36 am
Also and I don't think it really matters but can I use any type of Cat 5 cable with j45 connectors to hook the third charger controller in to the hub or is their some type of propitiatory cord I have to use to hook the two together? Also, in the schematics it shows that the charger controllers cat5 cables are hooked up in the inputs at the top of the hub, with what I believe is the DNC, they take up ports 1,2, & 3, respectively.. buuuuut in the pre-wired system, those cables from those units are installed at the "bottom" side of the hub ports not at the top and occupy 8, 9, and 10. Does that matter, where they are located in the HUB ? if not I will use port 7 for the third C.C. than.
The OB Cat5 cables are standard straight through Ethernet cables. They are not shielded and there have been reports of noise issues fixed using shielded Cat5 cables.

With the ports on the HUB10.3 facing down, the Mate must go into the far right port, the next port to the left is for a 2nd Mate which is not supported. Then come ports 1 thru 10 from right to left. Always install the master inverter, which in your case is a Radian in port 1. After that per the Hub10.3 Overview Guide any unused port can be used to host other devices. My experience is that the order of installation does not matter. The order on my own system is: 1) Radian, 2) CC, 3) FNDC, and 4) CC), which just happened after I got my Mate 3 and Radian in the correct ports. I have not tested @pss's advice on not skipping ports, but the Overview Guide does not state such a restriction.

If you are reading this and do not have a single Radian system, review the HUB10.3 Overview Guide for your specific inverter and configuration.

sodamo
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4 FM 80 charge controllers
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OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
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Charging Only
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Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by sodamo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:38 pm

Haven’t seen any issues skipping Hub ports
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by sodamo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:39 pm

Haven’t seen any issues skipping Hub ports
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David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

grunt
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 am
My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
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Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by grunt » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:27 am

fcwlp wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:28 pm
grunt wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:36 am
So both charger controllers have their own line as you can see in the pic. There is no rail for the third charger to land, as i am adding it after the pre-wired system is already configured. Now looking at it, it does not look like that big of a deal as the bars only server as a rail for the breaker and the panel to meet. So I guess I just need to deiced how I want the to do that, correct ?
Hi John, the two terminal bars you point to with (here, here in the figure) are for the PV+ terminals (i.e., the positive leads coming from the array). In the pre-wired systems there is a wire coming from these PV+ terminal blocks to the individual PV Input breakers. I would take your PV+ wire coming from your new array, put a ring terminal on it and attach directly to the new PV input breaker you will be installing.
grunt wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:36 am
Also and I don't think it really matters but can I use any type of Cat 5 cable with j45 connectors to hook the third charger controller in to the hub or is their some type of propitiatory cord I have to use to hook the two together? Also, in the schematics it shows that the charger controllers cat5 cables are hooked up in the inputs at the top of the hub, with what I believe is the DNC, they take up ports 1,2, & 3, respectively.. buuuuut in the pre-wired system, those cables from those units are installed at the "bottom" side of the hub ports not at the top and occupy 8, 9, and 10. Does that matter, where they are located in the HUB ? if not I will use port 7 for the third C.C. than.
The OB Cat5 cables are standard straight through Ethernet cables. They are not shielded and there have been reports of noise issues fixed using shielded Cat5 cables.

With the ports on the HUB10.3 facing down, the Mate must go into the far right port, the next port to the left is for a 2nd Mate which is not supported. Then come ports 1 thru 10 from right to left. Always install the master inverter, which in your case is a Radian in port 1. After that per the Hub10.3 Overview Guide any unused port can be used to host other devices. My experience is that the order of installation does not matter. The order on my own system is: 1) Radian, 2) CC, 3) FNDC, and 4) CC), which just happened after I got my Mate 3 and Radian in the correct ports. I have not tested @pss's advice on not skipping ports, but the Overview Guide does not state such a restriction.

If you are reading this and do not have a single Radian system, review the HUB10.3 Overview Guide for your specific inverter and configuration.
Thanks, I thought about doing running the extra PV+ line directly to the breaker as electrically its all the same point if use a rail or not.
Out Back tech support agrees with your outlook on the Ports with the Hub communication cord assignment, but it looks like some have had Optics RE issues with having them out of order so I am going to leave it the way they wired it but take note that it is that way if I have similar issues.
THANKS
soooo much for your help!

fcwlp
Forum Guru
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by fcwlp » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:33 am

grunt wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:27 am
Thanks, I thought about doing running the extra PV+ line directly to the breaker as electrically its all the same point if use a rail or not.
Going directly to the breaker saves putting a new rail in. I have found that putting new rails in a box full of wires is a bit challenging.

grunt
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Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 am
My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
4 6-85-15-SB 48 volt
forklift battery 938AH
11.2K worth of PV
Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by grunt » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:42 am

I figured I would ask this question here as it is relevant to the topic, I was able to get the third charger controller wired in to the load center and hook up a com cable to it, when the Mate3 turns on during the initial energizes phase it shows all three cc and when I program the mate3 it loads all of the cc with the presets. So obviously it sees it and it communicates with it, the port at the hub also blinks for the additional cc.. but here is my problem.
The third charger controller goes in to ex-absorb. It does not integrate its charging with the other two unit. It see the work they are doing and does not play along. I was wondering if I need to go in to the menu and set up a preference on the coms or something along that matter? Now mind you I used this specific CC for a small project prior to integrating it in to this system so I don’t know if there is some programing with the individual CC that needs to be changed?
Do you have any guess why it won’t charge with the other two??

raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
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Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by raysun » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:39 am

Check that the charge controller's battery voltage readings, at the Bat+ and Bat- terminals and on the display, agree. Check that those battery voltage readings agree with the other two CCs.

Walk through the Battery Charging, MPPT, Temp Comp, and Misc configuration screens and make sure all the voltage set points agree between the 3 charge controllers.

grunt
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 am
My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
4 6-85-15-SB 48 volt
forklift battery 938AH
11.2K worth of PV
Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by grunt » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:44 am

I will pull out the meter and check them and also check to make sure the menu's match up, but like I pointed out, this CC took the preset values from the Mate3 so I know for a fact that the displays show the same presets. Do I still need to go through and adjust the battery offsets for all three CC to match to the battery metered voltage?

raysun
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Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by raysun » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:57 am

grunt wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:44 am
I will pull out the meter and check them and also check to make sure the menu's match up, but like I pointed out, this CC took the preset values from the Mate3 so I know for a fact that the displays show the same presets. Do I still need to go through and adjust the battery offsets for all three CC to match to the battery metered voltage?
I'd say yes, the 3 CCs should read the same battery voltage at the terminals, be calibrated to that battery voltage.

I don't know if it's just me, but I set up the various parameters at the CC itself initially, rather than relying on OpticsRE or the Mate to perform the setup.

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by sodamo » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:22 am

Agree with Ray, physically check each CC for setting agreement, also their voltages.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

pss
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Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by pss » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:19 am

Okay, here goes: I have 3 FM60's all working in harmony. Using a Radian, the GSLC and a bunch of batteries. My batteries are in 4 strings, all 4 strings attach to a big copper buss bar. The leads off of the buss bar go to the inverter. I am in Grid-tie SELL mode. Now for my Optics RE settings:
Mate 3S/Global Charge/ Global Charger Control Disabled, Float Coordination Enabled, Auto Charge Termination Control Disabled, Auto Grid-Tie Control Disabled

All of my chargers report the same battery voltage.
All of the Charger Optics RE battery charging parameters are set exactly the same for each charger.
The MPPT tab is the same for all three.
The temperature compensation is the same for all three.
Under MISC, auto restart mode is OFF and all other parameters are the same for each controller. I do not use AUX Control.
If and when I use the Radian's built in charger and there is PV output too, the voltages of the Radian's charger are lower than those of the CC's so the CC's lead the way.

Now, since I have 3 arrays in three separate locations, a cloud or shadow could fall upon one and not the others and result in minor differences between controllers, but essentially 100% of the time they wake up together, go to sleep together and output the same. It's like they are a single big 180 amp controller.

grunt
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 am
My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
4 6-85-15-SB 48 volt
forklift battery 938AH
11.2K worth of PV
Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by grunt » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:40 am

I was able to get them to work in harmony after I adjusted the battery voltage compensation as recommended by the board members, Thanks for that! I did also have to go in to the mate3 and adjust that battery compensation there as well. Now a new problem has arrived. When the sun comes up they all wake up and come to in their proper order, as I have a long array, it takes some time. The number #2 CC controller which is one of the original CC that came with the system eventually goes in to a stand by mode known as "Charge" once the battery gets up to float. CC#1 which is the other original CC stays in its proper float configuration and CC#3 follows suit. Now my question is this, does the GS8048A put one of the CC in stand by mode on an off-grid system if the charging requirements are already being met by the other two CC ? I know if I turn off the inputs via the load center for cc 1 and 3 that are in float, that instantly cc # 2 kicks back on. My battery shows at 98% charge, I would assume it would allow all 3 cc to run until the battery stayed toped off at 100% plus what ever I am inverting off it, this is how I thought it would work. Let me know what you think. Thanks again for your valuable time.

raysun
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Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by raysun » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:16 am

Don't know if you have this doc. It's old, written for the older Mates, but still useful.

The "Charged" status shows up when the controller senses other external charging sources are keeping the battery above the controller's set Float voltage. The controller itself transitions to the Charged state during Float if it thinks it has no work to do. It's likely some minor variation in measurement between the charge controllers and likely inconsequential. The other two are maintaining Float. An increase in load likely kicks the 3rd controller back into Float when the battery voltage drops again. There's a setting on the Mate - Float Coordination Enable - that helps fine tune the orchestration between the controllers.
Last edited by raysun on Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

grunt
Forum Expert
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 am
My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
4 6-85-15-SB 48 volt
forklift battery 938AH
11.2K worth of PV
Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Integration of third charger controller. In to a pre-wired

Post by grunt » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:10 am

raysun wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:16 am
outback-flexnet-dc-system-monitor-outback-power-manual-819942005.pdf

Don't know if you have this doc. It's old, but useful.

The "Charged" status shows up when the controller senses other external charging sources are keeping the battery above the controller's set Float voltage. The controller itself transitions to the Charged state during Float if it thinks it has no work to do. It's likely some minor variation in measurement between the charge controllers and likely inconsequential. The other two are maintaining Float. An increase in load likely kicks the 3rd controller back into Float when the battery voltage drops again. There's a setting on the Mate - Float Coordination Enable - that helps fine tune the orchestration between the controllers.
Raysun,

I thank you to death!! Look forward to playing with it next week. I will let ya know how it goes!

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