NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

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Gwendoly Espe
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NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:41 am

An updated application note about SimpliPhi Batteries has been released!


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How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Check it out!
Gwendoly Espe
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Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
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- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
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Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
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- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
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All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by Mike Curran » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:28 am

Thanks Gwendoly. Do these settings also apply for Skybox inverters? I ask because I see references to Radians, but no mention of Skybox. Thanks - Mike
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

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claxtonstephen
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My RE system: Radian 8048A running in AC couple, 4x Simpliphi 3.5kwh batteries, and 32 solar panels creating AC power

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by claxtonstephen » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:49 am

A couple of questions..not certain if they are mistakes or major changes.
The Absorb time and voltage, the recommended time changed from .1 hours to 1 hour.
The low battery cut out time changed from 6 seconds to 130 seconds. ( while 90% and 100% are still at 1 second)

You may want to make the document clear or I am just reading incorrectly( which is more likely what is happening) in respect to the Charger AC limit(ACC). the lists in the chart:
AC Charger Limit in
AC Amps
24V = 5A @ 240V (5.2 @ 230V), or 10A @ 120V
48V = 8A @ 240V (8 @ 230), or 17A @ 120V

But at the bottom of the page it lists very different numbers in respect to battery sizing in table 4.
Stephen Claxton
Orlando, Florida
Radian 8048a in AC coupled mode
4 x Simpliphi 3.5 48v batteries
32 panels with Enphase mini-inverters

gtarolli
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My RE system: Outback: off-grid
- 1 GS8048A, Mate3, FlexNetDC, Hub10.3
- 2 FLEXmax 80
- 1 FLEXmax 60
- 30 (10x3) 300w panels (9000w total)
- 6 SimpliPhi 3.4 kWh LI batteries (400ah , 20kWh)
- 1 Honda 3000 generator + one spare
Location: Wainiha, Kauai, HI

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by gtarolli » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:56 pm

It seems as if these newer batteries are slightly different than the previous ones, which if true means you probably don't want to mix them.

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claxtonstephen
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Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by claxtonstephen » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:38 pm

Simpliphi states that you can add batteries to existing configs at any time. I would assume they would need to be the same voltage...12v, 14v, 48v. But the sheet is for simpliphi batteries, there was no statement of just new batteries. I see there was some adjustments made for ac coupling issues, but the settings I pointed out are a huge change in settings. That is why I am asking for verification before making those updates to my settings.
Stephen Claxton
Orlando, Florida
Radian 8048a in AC coupled mode
4 x Simpliphi 3.5 48v batteries
32 panels with Enphase mini-inverters

gtarolli
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Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:39 am
My RE system: Outback: off-grid
- 1 GS8048A, Mate3, FlexNetDC, Hub10.3
- 2 FLEXmax 80
- 1 FLEXmax 60
- 30 (10x3) 300w panels (9000w total)
- 6 SimpliPhi 3.4 kWh LI batteries (400ah , 20kWh)
- 1 Honda 3000 generator + one spare
Location: Wainiha, Kauai, HI

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by gtarolli » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:23 pm

I have added a v3.5 battery to a bank of v3.4 but all the recommended settings were the same for both. The newer v3.8 batteries seem to have different absorb settings along with a few others, so I would be cautious about adding them to a older batteries, even at the same voltage without first talking to Simpliphi. Note the posted document is for the v3.8 batteries and has different recommendations from the older docs for the older batteries. The settings are similar, and you can probably mix and match, and use more conservative settings, but I would be a little wary about it.

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:57 am

Mike Curran wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:28 am
Thanks Gwendoly. Do these settings also apply for Skybox inverters? I ask because I see references to Radians, but no mention of Skybox. Thanks - Mike
Hi!

It's intended for Radian inverters. SkyBox should have SimpliPhi settings preloaded so that one doesn't need to do any of these settings.
Gwendoly Espe
Applications Engineer


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:18 am

claxtonstephen wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:49 am

You may want to make the document clear or I am just reading incorrectly( which is more likely what is happening) in respect to the Charger AC limit(ACC). the lists in the chart:
AC Charger Limit in
AC Amps
24V = 5A @ 240V (5.2 @ 230V), or 10A @ 120V
48V = 8A @ 240V (8 @ 230), or 17A @ 120V

But at the bottom of the page it lists very different numbers in respect to battery sizing in table 4.
It looks the same to me.

# of parallel batteries 1 - 24V = 5A @ 240V
# of parallel batteries 1 - 48V = 8A @ 240V
Gwendoly Espe
Applications Engineer


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:50 am

claxtonstephen wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:49 am
The low battery cut out time changed from 6 seconds to 130 seconds. ( while 90% and 100% are still at 1 second)
When the battery drops below the re-bulk voltage it needs to be there for 2 min before LBCO in order to put time on the charge timers. For the 90% and 100% the voltage delta in between the re-bulk and LBCO is great enough to have 2 minutes pass before hitting LBCO. For the 80% it's only 0.4 delta, so there is chance that from Re-bulk 50.8Vdc to LBCO 50.4Vdc that you could reach LBCO less than 120 sec (2 min) so then the inverter would not put time on the charger and never enter a charging cycle. This is why 80%DoD is different.

claxtonstephen wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:49 am
The Absorb time and voltage, the recommended time changed from .1 hours to 1 hour.
This change came from the SimpliPhi team.
Gwendoly Espe
Applications Engineer


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Jpro556
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My RE system: Two systems:
- Dual Radian 8048's, two FM100's, 10.3kw pv, 12 Simpliphi 3.5's, 1 Kohler 14Resa, 1 Honda EU7000IS
- SystemEdge FP1 3648, FM80, 1 Simpliphi 3.4

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by Jpro556 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:06 pm

I have 12 Simpliphi 3.5's, and have 6 hooked up to a single Radian8048 while I make my busses to add a second Radian and the other batteries. Talked to Simpliphi, they say these new settings are appropriate for all their batteries... 3.4, 3.5, and 3.8's. I'm not getting results that make sense to me, so I've been playing around going back and forth between the old settings and the new just to see what is going on.

I am running at 80%. Using the old settings for the 3.5 batteries, I'm actually getting about 87% DOD out of the batteries looking at kWh in and out. SOC is pretty closely in sync.

Using the newer settings for 80% DOD, I'm only getting 71% DOD tracking kWh in and out, and it isn't consistent within 1 kwh, SOC is always off by 20-30%.

My PV arrays are 450' away and I don't have the 500MCM lines installed yet (another 30 days), just charging up daily with a Honda eu7000is generator.

The behavior of the inverter and batteries is really strange. Overall it works, but it isn't working as expected. I'm thinking I'm going to have to tweak the setting and have to play with it so that I consistently discharge and recharge 80% of the 21,000kwh the batteries should hold. Such a pain. Wish they had it dialed in a little better for all the money and lab time they are supposedly putting in.

Also, I'm noticing that my charging sometimes just cuts out prior to hitting the absorb voltage. Anybody have this happen? It isn't consistent, but its frequent. After a couple hours on generator I'll go check and see that the charger turned off somewhere around 54V versus 54.4 after the absorb time is hit, and then I manually start bulk charge again to get it going. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Jason

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claxtonstephen
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:24 am
My RE system: Radian 8048A running in AC couple, 4x Simpliphi 3.5kwh batteries, and 32 solar panels creating AC power

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by claxtonstephen » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:16 am

You will notice that if you are tied to grid, the system will "test" that the batteries are there every hour too. The charger will not (unless manually) charge the batteries until they are about 70% discharged. Does not leave much emergency power if they are needed issually.
Stephen Claxton
Orlando, Florida
Radian 8048a in AC coupled mode
4 x Simpliphi 3.5 48v batteries
32 panels with Enphase mini-inverters

gtarolli
Forum Guru
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:39 am
My RE system: Outback: off-grid
- 1 GS8048A, Mate3, FlexNetDC, Hub10.3
- 2 FLEXmax 80
- 1 FLEXmax 60
- 30 (10x3) 300w panels (9000w total)
- 6 SimpliPhi 3.4 kWh LI batteries (400ah , 20kWh)
- 1 Honda 3000 generator + one spare
Location: Wainiha, Kauai, HI

Re: NEW* How To Set Up SimpliPhi™ Batteries Using OutBack Chargers

Post by gtarolli » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:35 am

I posted this on another thread ... posting it here as well.

I emailed Simpliphi tech support regarding the new recommendations for Outback integration for the 3.8 model battery. These settings are quite a bit different from the older 3.4/3.5 batteries. I was wondering if these are newer/better and should be used for all models, or if they were just specific for the 3.8 model, and so I asked this:

I just saw your new 3.8 specs and the charge params are way different than my batteries, e.g. the voltages are lower and you recommend a longer absorb time and a monthly EQ charge. Is this ONLY for the 3.8 batteries, or have you changed your recommendations for 3.4/3.5 batteries (perhaps with different voltages etc).
I received this reply. As a result , I am lowering my absorb voltage a little and lengthening the time, so allow for a slower, gentler absorb cycle.
Thank you for emailing and asking. That is an excellent question. The new settings are actually not only for the new 3.8 PHI batteries but are recommended for all our previous generation 24v and 48v batteries, however it is not necessary to follow the new setpoints if you have a previous generation and are following the previous parameters.

There is no difference between the 3.8 BMS and previous models. The only change is in total capacity due to different cell form factor internally. Thus both sets of parameters can work for both batteries. I would recommend trying the new setpoints. I’ve attached these in the latest Outback Integration Guide. If you observe changes that you don’t like in your daily use, please let us know what you didn’t like and why. You can then make adjustments to the previous setpoints if you would like.

Lastly, you can make adjustments anywhere in the range from the previous settings to the latest settings in case you can hone in on a nice “sweet spot” setting that works best for you – so long as it is within the ranges of the old settings and the new settings.

Excellent question, and thanks for reaching out to ask.

Best regards,

Brandon

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