FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Dual Input, 120/240, stainless steel form factor design for unsurpassed surge capability
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Offgrid Newbie
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FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Offgrid Newbie » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:33 am

How does the FP2 FXR3048 (6,000 watts) compare to the Radian GS8048 (8000 watts)? I'm trying to decide which to get for our off-grid home.

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Jorge Guzman
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:28 pm

Good question!
For an off-grid home a Radian will offer just a few extra things such as: Smaller foot print, more wattage and dual AC inputs for two generators or for some Grid + Gen. A lot of the new Radian features are for Grid-tied folks so if you ever plan to have a line extended to your house a Radian will be future proof but otherwise you can't go wrong with the FXR's they are solid!
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Offgrid Newbie » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:03 pm

Thank you jguzman.
We plan to install two ductless air conditioning systems (1000 watts each roughly) and a shallow well pump (800 watts, but an initial start-up draw of twice that) for our rainwater cistern.

I've been told the FP2 no longer has a balancing transformer so the output is limited to 3000 watts per leg. The concern is that I might have problems overloading a single leg and when that happens the system shuts down.

Regarding the pump, the recommendation is that with a new FP2 it makes sense to use a 240 volt pump so it draws off of one leg. Another concern is the initial surge of a 120 pump may overload a single leg if other loads are on at the same time.

Thus, the Radian GS8048 is recommended. What do you think?

Do you have any reliability figures to compare the two?

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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by sparksalot » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:36 am

Is not there 240 volts from a FP2 without any transformer?

There is 3600 watts each for models VFXR3648,,,2 would add to 7200 watts in a FP2 arrangement.

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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by jbakker » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:59 am

In regards to your issue with your well pump, they do make soft start well pump units.
They work very well.
They also make VFD units. They vary the speed of the pump based on your demand.
More water needed faster, less water needed slower. Can add up to a real savings of energy!

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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:55 am

Offgrid Newbie wrote:I've been told the FP2 no longer has a balancing transformer so the output is limited to 3000 watts per leg. The concern is that I might have problems overloading a single leg and when that happens the system shuts down.
Correct, Not with FXR's. Legacy off-grid models did however.

In terms of surge, the Radian does provide more instantaneous power compared to the FXR's and if you ever need more capacity, adding an additional Radian is easier than with the FP2's. As others have suggested there are ways to work around high surges.

The other caveat choosing between the two would be environmental concerns. Radian only come as vented vs. FXR's have the sealed option for better protection against corrosive air. The model you spec is a sealed model.
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by jbakker » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:05 am

Geroge has a good point about the sealed vs vented.
Had a XANTREX DR 24 volt unit come in about a year ago. Customer said it would not work. Just died.

Opened it up and the whole thing was full of what looked like metal, like it was plated.

So ask where was this unit located. Turns out it ran the lights and fans and other items at a small plating shop.

Owner could not grasp why it was not worth fixing and had a hard time grasping why he needed to move to a sealed unit.

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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by sodamo » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:22 am

Following this thread intensely as I too am weighing FXR vs Radian for a potential upgrade to replace my existing FXs in the future.

Jorge, what is the advantage of Radian dual generator inputs? Only one could be controlled via the Mate3 AGS, what of the other one.

The sealed vs vented is important I think. While I think a direct swap FXR for FX looks to be straight forward (except what happens to my X-240) and more budget friendly, I have mostly convinced myself doing so leaves me with new inverters in the old environment of non sealed wiring & breakers that has been source of previous problems. Being within sight of the Pacific probably means some adverse effect. That said,i did see the Hawaii case study on the main site that was Radian based.
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:54 pm

sodamo wrote:Jorge, what is the advantage of Radian dual generator inputs? Only one could be controlled via the Mate3 AGS, what of the other one.
I was being specific to the original question being off-grid only. Although the Radian has the dual inputs labeled as Grid & Gen in an off-grid scenario where you don't have a grid connection, you could use two gen (I've seen some folks use it for two generators for redundancy) This avoids having to install an external transfer switch.

You are correct, AGS is meant to auto start one generator. Also, keep in mind that the Radian also has two built in auxiliary outputs one is a hot 12v the second is a relay/dry contact.
sodamo wrote:what happens to my X-240
Although the FXR's don't require it, it can still be used as generator balancing or stepping up a single FXR to 240 OR you can just sell it to a buddy.
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Offgrid Newbie » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:25 pm

It seems there is another factor in comparing the two that will be increasingly valuable. The Radian has "Advanced Battery Charging" that purports to support flooded, gel, AGM, lithium-ion and flow chemistry. I am planning to get low-end flooded batteries with our new system while I wait for what appears to be more advanced batteries on the horizon, or a drop in price for LiFePO4 batteries. I have friends with older inverters and charge controllers but advanced batteries that stab in the dark to identify State of Charge. Presumably the Radian would do a better job of tracking SOC in the advanced batteries.

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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:20 pm

FXR's also have the ABC charging profile.
You might also look into advanced VRLA batteries. OutBack sells Pure Lead Carbon batteries. They perform better than traditional flooded and way cheaper than Lithium options.
Offgrid Newbie wrote:Presumably the Radian would do a better job of tracking SOC in the advanced batteries.
The ABC only affects charging setpoints, the FLEXnet DC is that one that monitors state-of-charge for both systems Radian and FXR's.
I know of a friend that is using the FN-DC with Blue-Ion batteries and has had great success with accuracy.
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Offgrid Newbie » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:53 pm

Ah! I see from literature on the FXR that they also have ABC, but the official wording seems a little different between the two Outback descriptions.

The FXR states - "Advanced Battery Charging (ABC) with expanded charging voltages and time parameters, enabling system designers to accommodate the specific charging profiles and algorithms of new and emerging energy storage technologies including Lithium Ion, Aqueous Ion and Flow chemistry batteries."

The GS8048 states - "Advanced Battery Charging (ABC) profile option to support leading-edge battery technologies such as Lithium-Ion and others, and enhanced diagnostics for improved performance."

Does the GS8048 ABC support Aqueous Ion batteries? Are the Aquion batteries "Aqueous Ion"

I'm going to assume that there are no differences between the two (FXR and GS) with regard to charging advanced batteries, and the different wording is just because two different people wrote them. Is that correct?

Do both support Aquion battery charging?

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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:41 pm

jguzman wrote:Do both support Aquion battery charging?
For sure. Here is a white paper OB came out with on how to program your chargers for Aquion batteries.
Attachments
Aquion Battery Setup 2-2-2017.pdf
(452.67 KiB) Downloaded 205 times
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Offgrid Newbie » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:05 pm

Thank you!
Newbie

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4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by sodamo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:24 am

Jorge
I couldnÔÇÖt find the referenced document ÔÇ£Battery Charging With OutBack Power Devices.ÔÇØ
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:42 am

sodamo wrote:ÔÇ£Battery Charging With OutBack Power Devices.ÔÇØ
Here is a direct link to the white paper: http://outbackpower.com/downloads/docum ... p_note.pdf
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4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by sodamo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:30 am

Jorge Guzman wrote:
sodamo wrote:ÔÇ£Battery Charging With OutBack Power Devices.ÔÇØ
Here is a direct link to the white paper: http://outbackpower.com/downloads/docum ... p_note.pdf
Thank you, Jorge. I also found that one, but title ÔÇ£OutBack Battery Setup Using OutBack ChargersÔÇØ is quite difference and seems aimed at Outback batteries. Not being same title, my simple mind reasoned it wasnt the reference item.

Could i also get some clarifications re ÔÇ£Advanced Battery ChargingÔÇØ this term seems to relate to the inverter side of the house? Hence applies to the use of the generator/grid powered charger? Any other benefit? How is it different from the older FX charging?

How is this same or different from the CC side?

What influence if any on FNDC?
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Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by Jorge Guzman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:01 am

sodamo wrote:Could i also get some clarifications re ÔÇ£Advanced Battery ChargingÔÇØ this term seems to relate to the inverter side of the house?
This new charging feature allows for the charger to accommodate new emerging battery technologies such as Lithium.

Charging voltages have been widen, you may cancel or skip specific charge stages and have a constant 24-hr float timer option + others.
Page 31 from the operators manual describes this feature in detail found here:
http://outbackpower.com/downloads/docum ... erator.pdf

New ranges are (FXR & Radian-A):
12-volt inverters: 10.5 to 17.0 Vdc
24-volt inverters: 21.0 to 34.0 Vdc
48-volt inverters: 42.0 to 68.0 Vdc

Old ranges are (FX):
12-volt inverters: 11.0 to 16.0 Vdc
24-volt inverters: 22.0 to 32.0 Vdc
48-volt inverters: 44.0 to 64.0 Vdc
sodamo wrote:How is this same or different from the CC side?
ABC only affects the inverter charger
sodamo wrote:What influence if any on FNDC?
This has no effect with FNDC other than FNDC is really meant for Lead Acid batteries so syncing the FNDC to other types of battery technologies can be tricky.
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sodamo
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Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: FP2 FXR3048 vs. Radian GS8048

Post by sodamo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am

Thanks, Jorge \:D/
David
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