Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

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grunt
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Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by grunt » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:02 pm

So here is my dilemma, originally earlier this year we were in the process of selling our home and purchasing another plot of land and building from scratch. Unfortunately we hit some litigations snags that prevented us from selling our house. Now with most of the summer gone we are finally at a place where we can sale our home and start building on the 16 acre orchard we just bought. Originally the plan was to be fully off grid and if we had the whole summer back we could have enough time to build the infrastructure to do so but we donÔÇÖt. So we asked the local co-op to come give us a bid on how much it would cost us to run a line to the house of the new build. They came back with the price of $5000.
The proposed PV system we were planning to install was roughly a little over 10k worth of panels and a GS8480, 3 charger controllers, a fork lift battery, a 12k gen set and a few other odds and ends thrown in to make it work properly.
Now here is my question and I know this is not IDEAL but I was wondering could I make it work until spring? We heat with wood and we will be using a water storage in line pump system to pressurize the lines in the home so we can control when the well comes on. Can we use the GS8480 and the fork lift battery and the generator to get us through the winter without the need to have solar panels? I am not asking about is the home load manageable but will the GS8480 function without solar panels in this manner? Or does it need communication from the charger controllers to work? I figure we could work the load out between the forklift battery and the generator. Just for the winter but to spend 5 k for something I donÔÇÖt want anyways is a bit much.
Thanks ahead of time!
John

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Kurt Lundquist
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by Kurt Lundquist » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:58 pm

I've deployed a GS8048 system that was just battery and generator. It can be done but it isn't ideal for the battery bank or generator. In my case, the generator was prime rated and the design was based around the generator operating 12 hours per day every day while the battery bank carried the load over the night. The system had plenty of time to go through a full Absorb and even some Float charge every day. If you decide to go this route I would plan on having a second generator around as a backup. Having two different sized generators is nice anyway as you might find a small gen is enough to finish the Absorb battery charge and take care of the home loads while using less fuel. $5k is a lot of money for me but in terms of a grid hook up it is a drop in the bucket. If the local coop offers solar net metering I would consider it as the long run costs will be less than gen fuel/maintenance and battery bank wear/tear.

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
Renewable Energy Project Engineer
http://alphaenergy.us/

grunt
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My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
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Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by grunt » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:39 am

Kurt I appreciate your input. Its not just the cost that worries me but also It's the overreaching non questionable claim the energy companies make on my property once I become a customer. Case in point our current system on our house was installed by a gentleman that might be barred from installing our new system, if it was hooked to the grid. Every year new regulations come out, more freedoms are lost and I rather do as much as I can to insulate myself from such intrusion. One last question.. do you know the charge capacity of the GS8480 in amps? I am sure I might be able to find it in the ownerÔÇÖs manual but I canÔÇÖt seem to find it in any information PDFÔÇÖs

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Kurt Lundquist
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by Kurt Lundquist » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:29 am

Hi John,

I can certainly appreciate your sentiments.

Here is the spec sheet for the GS8048A inverter. http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/d ... csheet.pdf

I assume you are buying the A model and not the older GS8048 (non-A).

Charger DC output is up to 115Amps. Of the top of my head, I think it takes 30Amps AC at 240V to make it happen.

For further info check out the Radian page here http://www.outbackpower.com/products/in ... ian-series

Cheers,

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
Renewable Energy Project Engineer
http://alphaenergy.us/

grunt
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by grunt » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:19 pm

Kurt please excuse my ignorance but what is the big difference between the "A" version and non "A" version? Also the owner manual for the Radian has unfamiliar wording in regards to picking the generator. It state not to use a 3 phase or a single phase. The separate warring below that paragraph just mentions the 3 phase as voiding the warranty. From my understanding single phase is a "split phase" as in you have two separate legs in single phase that are split and are 180 out of phase from each other :-k . If this is the case any generator that is not 3 phase should work as there is not such thing as 2 phase... Is this right??
Thanks again

petertearai
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by petertearai » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:09 pm

Hi
You say $5000 to get a cable .
If i was you i would just go on to the grid . Cheaper easier .
2220 pv. fm80. 12 times 2 volt exc shoto lead carbon 450 AH 24 volts. victron battery monitor. outback fxr 2000 watt inverter

grunt
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My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
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forklift battery 938AH
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Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by grunt » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:25 pm

Making the wrong choice to send my kids to government schools would be easier and cheaper too but it does not answer my question. Did you not read the part about the power company also assuming rights and privileges to your property once you hook up to the grid?.. no thank you.

petertearai
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by petertearai » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:06 pm

sorry
2220 pv. fm80. 12 times 2 volt exc shoto lead carbon 450 AH 24 volts. victron battery monitor. outback fxr 2000 watt inverter

blackswan555
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by blackswan555 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:44 am

a fork lift battery, a 12k gen set and a few other odds and ends thrown in to make it work properly.
Now here is my question and I know this is not IDEAL but I was wondering could I make it work until spring?
Yes no problem, A lot of my previous sites, Some with no solar, the others,,,,, Nowhere near enough, (Most have grid now) Did for some years,
Getting your AGS settings correct and a bit of planning for high consumption times using load start and must run will help your batteries and gen a lot,

Tim


PS what AH batteries ? presuming your mention of fork lift batteries, They are wet cell type not AGM as in your profile ? If so you will need a decent hydrometer or two (you will break one)
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.

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Kurt Lundquist
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Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 7:23 am
My RE system: VFX3524, Mate3, 200Ah 24V AGM Battery Bank
Location: Arlington, WA

Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by Kurt Lundquist » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:13 am

grunt wrote:Kurt please excuse my ignorance but what is the big difference between the "A" version and non "A" version?
The GS8048 is the original release of the Radian product line and it is no longer being manufactured. OutBack stopped making that inverter a couple of years ago when they started making the GS8048A model. There are hardware and software differences between the two inverters. Either would work for your application but the GS8048 doesn't play well with the GS8048A. If you install a GS8048 inverter your future expansion options are limited.
grunt wrote:From my understanding single phase is a "split phase" as in you have two separate legs in single phase that are split and are 180 out of phase from each other
The inverter is looking for a 2-wire single phase 120/240V feed (180┬░ out of phase as you state above).

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
Renewable Energy Project Engineer
http://alphaenergy.us/

grunt
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Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:02 am
My RE system: Gs8048a 3 FM80
4 6-85-15-SB 48 volt
forklift battery 938AH
11.2K worth of PV
Kohler Ecotech motor LP gen

Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by grunt » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:37 am

blackswan555 wrote:
a fork lift battery, a 12k gen set and a few other odds and ends thrown in to make it work properly.
Now here is my question and I know this is not IDEAL but I was wondering could I make it work until spring?
Yes no problem, A lot of my previous sites, Some with no solar, the others,,,,, Nowhere near enough, (Most have grid now) Did for some years,
Getting your AGS settings correct and a bit of planning for high consumption times using load start and must run will help your batteries and gen a lot,

Tim


PS what AH batteries ? presuming your mention of fork lift batteries, They are wet cell type not AGM as in your profile ? If so you will need a decent hydrometer or two (you will break one)
The info in my signature is of our current home system, we will be using a 1350 amp hour (20hr) forklift battery. I look forward to seeing how much life I can get out of them and I plan to maintain and check them on a weekly basis until I understand their needs, I know watering them seems to be a weekly chore with the few that I talk to that have them. With batteries being the fickle part of most back up systems, I look foreword to the learning curve. As a matter of fact if any one could recommend some literature about maintaining wet cells, It would be much appreciated. I have read most of what I could understand on Battery University but some times books are better. OH and blackswan you are the second person the make the recommendation about having a few meters on hand. :lol: Petertarai, sorry for biting off your head... watching my freedoms fade more year after year, while we fight endless wars to "supposably" maintain them is a sore point with me. I thank you for your time to leave some input.

blackswan555
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Re: Not Ideal but need to buy some time.

Post by blackswan555 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:14 am

http://rollsbattery.com/public/docs/use ... Manual.pdf is a good read & reference point,
Your own battery manual would be a good starting place but do not forget if they are "Fork lift" batteries (Traction batteries as they are known) The charge regime will be a little different as it is all about machine down time there, eg use em hard every day, Charge them quickly ready for next work cycle (Higher voltage, Max recommended amps) Whilst on Solar we tend to be a little more gentle on them :grin:
Reading your SGs and adjusting voltage and time from there is the way to go,
I know watering them seems to be a weekly chore with the few that I talk to that have them
Sounds like they are on the "fork lift settings,,,,,,

Rolls manual above, Please pay particular attention to commissioning charge (pg9) In simple terms, You do not know their state of charge when you get them, First thing you do is charge them untill all SGs stop rising, (If you are going to use FNDC, they MUST be fully charged before you plug it in)
Also keep in mind if they are new, They will take about 70 cycles to reach full capacity,

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.

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