AC coupling Configuration Question

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pss
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AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:57 am

I updated my Mate 3S to firmware 1.41 and my Radian GS8048A to firmware 1.6.70. According to technical note of Feb 22, 2019, I should be able to program AC coupling by going to my Mate 3S, selecting inverter and scrolling down to the AC Coupling menu. That menu is not present.

I am in Minigrid in the day and do not sell back to utility. So my question is: Is the AC Coupling menu for the Inverter via the Mate 3S always present or is it dependent on the other settings of the Inverter such as Grid Tied? IE., does this AC Coupling Menu appear and disappear from the Mate3S and what settings does it depend on being present to appear as an option?

Thanks.

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:25 am

Hello I have quoted the Application Note for reference. Did you enter the installer password? It says it is only visible by entering the Installer Password.


Programming the MATE3s and Radian Inverter
1. Download the MATE3s and Radian AC Coupling firmware from the OutBack Power website.
2. Copy the firmware files to the SD card and install from the MATE3s Main Menu.
3. Enter the Installer password.
4. Select Settings from the MATE3s Main Menu.
5. Select Inverter menu and scroll down to the AC Coupling settings.
6. Change AC Coupling from N to Y, and change the Freq Shift Response Time (0.02 to 5.0
seconds) if desired. This setting adds/subtracts delay in the frequency steps between 60.0
and 64.5 Hz.
7. Press the UP key to move back to the Inverter menu and program the Absorb and Float charger
settings according to the battery manufacturerÔÇÖs specifications.
8. Move to the Grid Tied settings in the Inverter menu if the SellRE setting is to be changed from
its default setting of 52.0 volts. NOTE: the SellRE setting does not affect the exporting of GTI
current back to the main service panel. The GTI current moves from the AC output to the AC
input through a relay so the SellRE setting has no affect. However, the SellRE setting becomes
the active voltage target during frequency shift operation when the Absorb and Float timers have
been zeroed. A higher setting from 52.0 to equal the Float setting may allow the GTI to operate
over a wider battery voltage range when the Backup Load panel is lightly loaded. If using
lead-acid batteries, most can operate safely at Float voltages for extended periods.
Gwendoly Espe
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pss
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:42 am

Yes, I entered the installer password. There is no AC Coupling menu option on my Mate 3S, Settings, Inverter menu. That is why I posted on forum. Something is wrong here with the firmware, at least in my case or other menu parameters to make this menu line item display.

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by raysun » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:53 am

pss wrote:Yes, I entered the installer password. There is no AC Coupling menu option on my Mate 3S, Settings, Inverter menu. That is why I posted on forum. Something is wrong here with the firmware, at least in my case or other menu parameters to make this menu line item display.
Perhaps another firmware installation will overwrite some corrupted code or memory space.

Perhaps some old code or data did not get updated. A Reset to Factory Defaults before reloading the firmware may allow the installer to proceed successfully.

pss
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:09 am

If the firmware updates proceed without error and yet, as you suggest there could be corruption in the process or incompletion of the process, then it would be incumbent upon the software manufacturer to provide a program to execute and verify that all firmware checksums and code is installed correctly. Otherwise, resetting all to defaults, taking power off line and just guessing is not a real solution and not something I want to have to do unless I find it to be absolutely necessary. Also, if corrupt programming is present, it present a hazard to a technician maybe?

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by raysun » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:24 am

pss wrote:If the firmware updates proceed without error and yet, as you suggest there could be corruption in the process or incompletion of the process, then it would be incumbent upon the software manufacturer to provide a program to execute and verify that all firmware checksums and code is installed correctly. Otherwise, resetting all to defaults, taking power off line and just guessing is not a real solution and not something I want to have to do unless I find it to be absolutely necessary. Also, if corrupt programming is present, it present a hazard to a technician maybe?
Proceed as you feel best. Having managed over one million lines of firmware install code in my day, I can tell you with confidence that every possible combination of code and data structures are impossible to error trap. To quote a derisive truism "Code can be made fool proof, but it can't be made damn-fool proof."

If you are not comfortable resetting to a known, and likely well-tested starting point to attempt a straight-forward as possible firmware install, then open a trouble ticket with support and get some help there.

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:46 am

pss wrote:Yes, I entered the installer password. There is no AC Coupling menu option on my Mate 3S, Settings, Inverter menu. That is why I posted on forum. Something is wrong here with the firmware, at least in my case or other menu parameters to make this menu line item display.
Well, I see that your AC Coupling is set to OFF from OpticsRE, so your system has it and it looks like from OpitcsRE that you do indeed have the right firmware versions. Now just getting you to see it in the MATE3s. I'm waiting to hear back from a couple of people here, but in the mean time...

Do you still have the default installer password or do you have your own installer password? I know that the Grid Interface Protection menu only shows up if the installer password is changed from default. I'm checking to see if that might be required, feel free to check on your own.
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by raysun » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 am

Interesting Gwendoly.

I thought some bit did not get flipped during the upgrade process, but it makes sense this could be "by design".

Protecting the system from folks who use "PASSWORD" as their password.

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:51 pm

My system is using the default three digit installer password.

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by raysun » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:10 pm

pss wrote:My system is using the default three digit installer password.
Mine too.

Can't even figure out how to change it on Mate 3. Can't get past Inst Pwd Challenge.

RTFM I guess.

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:53 am

pss wrote:My system is using the default three digit installer password.

The *three* digit password? The three digit password is not the INSTALLER PASSWORD, that is the USER PASSWORD. The installer password is the four digit password above the user password.

The installer password will be either be the default (see Image) or what the installer changed it to. Have you been using the 3 digit user password or the 4 digit installer password?

1) Try the default 4 digit password, if that doesn't work....
2) Then change the 4 digit installer password from default and then get out and then sign back in with the new Installer Password. *I'm pretty sure this is what is needed, still waiting for confirmation*


Let us know which worked for you! :)
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Gwendoly Espe
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pss
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:49 am

Well, it turns out that when I re-read the Feb tech note on AC Coupling, it does indeed say to enter the installer password. I was entering the user password. Now, when I enter the installer password, my AC Coupling menu item is properly displayed.

Thanks Gwendolyn for pointing this out.
In the future I will be much more careful in reading the noes.

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Kurt Lundquist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:01 am

Why are you using AC coupling? Do you have a normal grid-direct string inverter wired to the Radian AC output?

-Kurt
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:39 am

The geographic restrictions at my property make the addition of more panels for load with microinverters much more feasible than another DC array.

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by chinezbrun » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:11 am

Hi guys, do we need to change default installer password or not?

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by claxtonstephen » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:58 am

I had a similar issue and after spending some quality time on the phone learned that you have to change the 4 digit installer password. log out( disconnect from the system and let it reboot). then log back in using the new installer password. Then and only then will the AC couple option show up.
Right now, from what I have been told from Outback, the only mode that is "Officially" supported is grid tied...which you can turn sell back off, but I don't think the off switch works properly. While I was in your situation where I was not able to sell back yet, I ran in mini-grid and the system does work VERY well. the only problem I had with it was 1. I could not turn sell back on, and 2. it would not pull from the grid when the batteries dropped below low cutoff...the inverter just shut down.

I have asked a couple of folks at Outback about the possibility to get mini-grid whit these two items fixed as part of the approved modes, but these things take time.
Stephen Claxton
Orlando, Florida
Radian 8048a in AC coupled mode
4 x Simpliphi 3.5 48v batteries
32 panels with Enphase mini-inverters

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Gwendoly Espe
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Gwendoly Espe » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:24 am

It will never connect to Grid in Mini Grid mode, so no it will never charge from Grid.

The rule is it will only connect to AC sources set as Grid-Tied or Generator mode. Any other AC Input mode can be set with AC Coupling on but the unit will never connect to the AC Input in that condition. It will live purely off-grid and do all of the frequency shifting expected from AC Coupling.


You can try to be in Grid-Tied mode and use Grid-Use timers to disconnect from the grid during times you would sell back.
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Swampdog » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:07 pm

Although I see this is an older thread, thought I would try. I am using the Installer password, changed as required, but also see no AC Coupling options. I can see the Grid Protection settings, however, which I believe assures I am in the Installer menus.

I changed the installer password and reset the MATE3s. No change... still no AC Coupling settings option.

Attached is an image of the menus where it is supposed to be located, according to the MATE3s Menu Map, between the FLEXnet DC Advanced Control and the FLEXtime Schedule menus.

Any assistance appreciated!

S/D
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pss
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:46 pm

Yes, it is me, the starter of this thread. I remember that the AC coupling configuration menu required the latest version of the Mate 3S as well as the Radian 8048a firmware to be available in the menus. 1.6.70 or later I believe for the inverter firmware. So since it is after hours from support, I thought this might help you out. Good luck.

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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by Swampdog » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:53 pm

Thx. I have the latest fw updates for both the MATE3s (1.4.2) and Radian GS8048A (1.6.7).

I have been through every menu and submenu to their ends... no AC Coupling menu.

S/D

pss
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Re: AC coupling Configuration Question

Post by pss » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Sorry it is so frustrating, I feel your pain. If I have time in the next few hours, I will try to look at my menus and see if I can find it.

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