8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sense?

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8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sense?

Postby clarkef on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:19 pm

Just installed my GSLC 120/240PV which has the built in FLEXNet DC. I’m using multiple FM100 charge controllers.

My question relates to the use of the battery sense inputs in the FM100’s. Supposedly they are networked so what one FM100 senses the others copy. Today for the first time with everything running I noticed the FM100’s were showing a different voltage for the battery bank - about .3v higher than the FLEXNet DC battery reading (which is identical to my fluke at the batteries and at the buss bars in the GSLC. Before the Radian / GSLC, I did have twisted pair hooked up to the battery sense which made a noticeable improvement in battery voltage accuracy.

Shouldn’t the FM100’s take the FLEXNet DC voltages? If not, why not? What’s the sense of having a master DC monitoring system if the charge controllers don’t use it?
clarkef
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Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby Gwendoly Espe on Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:21 am

Hello,

I didn't quite follow after
" (which is identical..."
Is the .3V higher that the FM100 is reading identical to the fluke or the FNDC reading is identical to the fluke meter? Either way I hope the following information helps answer your question.


In the manual it shows the priority for the system display voltage:

IMPORTANT:
The MATE3s system display shows the overall system voltage as measured at the battery
terminals of various devices. (See Figure 26 on page 35.) This voltage is used for generator
starting and other functions.
* If no other devices are present, it will show the reading of the FLEXmax 100. Unless:
* If OutBack inverters are present, the inverter voltage replaces the FLEXmax 100 as the
system voltage reading. Unless:
* If the FLEXmax 100 Battery Sense terminals are in use, this reading replaces the inverter
or the regular charge controller readings as the system voltage. Unless:
* The FLEXnet DC Battery Monitor is the highest priority and will replace the Battery Sense
reading as the system voltage.
The Battery Sense reading is still shown on the Charge Controller screen. (See Figure 27 on
page 36.) This reading is still used to adjust the FLEXmax 100 charging.


It also shares some benefits of the battery sense.
The Battery Sense function has several advantages apart from accurate battery readings.
* The more accurate charging may increase battery life.
* A single set of readings can be used by multiple FLEXmax 100 controllers.
* Conflict between controllers due to differing readings is eliminated.
* The need for calibration is eliminated. If Battery Sense is not in use, the user can calibrate the battery meter
at the charge controller’s main terminals. See page 50 and the system display literature for more information.
(If Battery Sense is in use, calibration changes are not needed and will have no effect.)



Mark goes into Batt Sense in this YouTube Video starting at 21:11
Gwendoly Espe
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Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby clarkef on Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:11 am

Gwendoly Espe wrote:Is the .3V higher that the FM100 is reading identical to the fluke or the FNDC reading is identical to the fluke meter? ]


Its .3V higher than the FLEXNet battery voltage / measured fluke battery voltage.

Sounds like I need to hook up one of the FM100’s either to the lugs in the GSLC or direct to the battery.

They are networked Gwendoly correct? Just hook up the primary and the others will get that reading over the hub?
clarkef
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My RE system: Radian 8048A w/PV GSLC
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2000AH of Li-Ion modules @48v with BMS
Midnite Combiners, SPDs

Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby Gwendoly Espe on Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:35 am

* A single set of readings can be used by multiple FLEXmax 100 controllers.


Yes, the system will share the information to the other FM100s through a HUB.
Gwendoly Espe
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Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby clarkef on Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:13 pm

Gwendoly Espe wrote:
* A single set of readings can be used by multiple FLEXmax 100 controllers.


Yes, the system will share the information to the other FM100s through a HUB.


Thank you.
clarkef
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My RE system: Radian 8048A w/PV GSLC
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2KW of 9 60 cell poly panels (3s3p)
2000AH of Li-Ion modules @48v with BMS
Midnite Combiners, SPDs

Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby clarkef on Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:17 pm

Despite what Outback says that the FM100 with battery sense hooked up will "share" it's voltage readings with other FM100's, that doesn't appear to be the case.

I have three FM100's. The first FM100 has battery sense wired. The other two FM100's report slightly different voltages than the first and the FlexNET DC - and act accordingly - going into Absorb or Float based on the individual reported voltages and not the voltage of the first FM100.

Question 1: Is there a start up sequence I need to turn the FM100's on in, or a configuration I need to set, in order to get the two other units to use a "shared" FM100 voltage sense? I am on current 1.02 Firmware for all units.

Is there any risk associated with putting all three FM100's battery sense lines in parallel? At least this way they behave according to their identical settings with identical voltages from a common point sensed in.
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My RE system: Radian 8048A w/PV GSLC
FM100 CC x3
10KW of 72 cell panels (5S3P x2)
2KW of 9 60 cell poly panels (3s3p)
2000AH of Li-Ion modules @48v with BMS
Midnite Combiners, SPDs

Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:45 am

clarkef wrote:Despite what Outback says that the FM100 with battery sense hooked up will "share" it's voltage readings with other FM100's, that doesn't appear to be the case.


What happens when you plug the RTS into the Inverter RTS port?

Why are you using temp compensation with a lithium battery bank? You keep the batteries in a climate controlled area, right?

-Kurt
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Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby clarkef on Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:36 am

Kurt Lundquist wrote:What happens when you plug the RTS into the Inverter RTS port?

Why are you using temp compensation with a lithium battery bank? You keep the batteries in a climate controlled area, right?


Kurt,

I never said anything about temp compensation in my last post. If I could turn temp compensation off completely 0mv/deg c I would - but Outback won’t let me do that as 0 is out of range (still think they need an “off” for temp compensation. Anyway, I have no RTS sensors installed anywhere.

I can see your confusion when I said ‘remote sense’ on the FM100’s I’m talking about the remote voltage sense capability of the FM100’s, not temp sense.

This is from the FM100 manual.

The MATE3s system display shows the overall system voltage as measured at the battery terminals of various devices. (See Figure 26 on page 35.) This voltage is used for generator starting and other functions.
 If no other devices are present, it will show the reading of the FLEXmax 100. Unless:
 If OutBack inverters are present, the inverter voltage replaces the FLEXmax 100 as the
system voltage reading. Unless:
 If the FLEXmax 100 Battery Sense terminals are in use, this reading replaces the inverter or the regular charge controller readings as the system voltage. Unless:
 The FLEXnet DC Battery Monitor is the highest priority and will replace the Battery Sense reading as the system voltage.
The Battery Sense reading is still shown on the Charge Controller screen. (See Figure 27 on page 36.) This reading is still used to adjust the FLEXmax 100 charging.

...SNIP...

This function operates automatically when it detects a voltage within 2 volts of the battery voltage reading at the charge controller’s main terminals. If the reading varies by more than 2 volts, the Battery Sense function is disabled. The assumption is that the terminals are not connected. (If the terminals are connected, there may be a wiring problem.)
The Battery Sense function has several advantages apart from accurate battery readings.
 The more accurate charging may increase battery life.
A single set of readings can be used by multiple FLEXmax 100 controllers.
 Conflict between controllers due to differing readings is eliminated.


It’s the “a single set of readings can be shared” that I want to figure out how to make happen - because it doesn’t.

Thanks!
clarkef
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My RE system: Radian 8048A w/PV GSLC
FM100 CC x3
10KW of 72 cell panels (5S3P x2)
2KW of 9 60 cell poly panels (3s3p)
2000AH of Li-Ion modules @48v with BMS
Midnite Combiners, SPDs

Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:35 am

Doh! And here I looked at the battery sense terminals in the manual first then tricked myself into thinking you were referring to RTS. Thanks for your understanding.

So I am in the same boat as you at this point. It seems that if the FN-DC is installed everything should be using the FN-DC voltage even if you have the battery sense terminals wired into an FM100. I'll ask around and see if I can get some clarity.

I would be curious to know what happens when the FN-DC is unplugged from the system.

-Kurt
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Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:41 am

I spoke with some smarter people than myself and it sounds like wiring both the FM100 sense terminals to the battery is the way to go. The FN-DC will provide the system voltage in terms of charge termination (if you use that feature). I am sorry it took so long for the follow-up.

Thanks,

-Kurt
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Re: 8048A with GSLC, FLEXnet DVand FM100’s - use battery sen

Postby clarkef on Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:46 pm

Kurt Lundquist wrote:I spoke with some smarter people than myself and it sounds like wiring both the FM100 sense terminals to the battery is the way to go. The FN-DC will provide the system voltage in terms of charge termination (if you use that feature). I am sorry it took so long for the follow-up.


Thanks Kurt - that's what I did. I appreciate you following up for me.

Each of the three FM100's is wired up to a fused battery sense off the battery combiner bars. While there are still apparently small variations in FM100 voltage calibration, the behaviour is much more consistent now.

I wish that the alleged "battery sense over the network across FM100's" worked as is implied it should in the docs - but it's working pretty good now with each hardwired to my combiner taps.
clarkef
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Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:43 am
My RE system: Radian 8048A w/PV GSLC
FM100 CC x3
10KW of 72 cell panels (5S3P x2)
2KW of 9 60 cell poly panels (3s3p)
2000AH of Li-Ion modules @48v with BMS
Midnite Combiners, SPDs


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