understanding role of the battery charger settings

Dual Input, 120/240, stainless steel form factor design for unsurpassed surge capability

understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Megunticook on Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:57 am

I have the Radian's battery charged turned off, but I notice that the parameters are affecting the Radian's behavior in ways that seem inconsistent or that I don't fully grasp. For example, if I try to raise the sell voltage setting during colder weather, at a certain point I can only get the voltage up to where I want it (57 at 0 degrees C, for example) if I raise the Radian's charger float voltage setting (even though the charge controllers, in GT Mode, are targeting their temp. compensated absorb voltage).

In another head scratcher, I found myself unable to get the CC's out of an Absorption phase (charge parameters had already been met) until I set the Radian battery charger's absorption time to 0:00.

I would love to read a thorough explanation of how the Radian's internal charger settings affect the rest of the system, even when the charger is disabled. I'm always able to accomplish what I want through trial and error, it's just that I feel like I don't fully understand the logic behind the charger's role in the system.

All in all I must say the system performs beautifully and at this point is pretty much in "set it and forget it" mode, but I've been experiencing some confusion as I make adjustments for the cold weather.
https://sunnypower.org
User avatar
Megunticook
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:08 am
Location: Maine
My RE system: 6.4 kW solar array (21 QCell 305 panels in strings of 3)
GS8048A FLEXpower Radian (Radian 8048A, 2 FlexMax 80 cc's, Mate 3s, FlexNet DC, Hub)
8x6v Rolls-Surette 550 FLA batteries, 428AH

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Mike Curran on Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:32 am

Megunticook wrote:If I try to raise the sell voltage setting during colder weather, at a certain point I can only get the voltage up to where I want it (57 at 0 degrees C, for example) if I raise the Radian's charger float voltage setting (even though the charge controllers, in GT Mode, are targeting their temp. compensated absorb voltage).
What mode are the charge controllers in? If it says "GT Mode" then they aren't targeting absorb voltage. Should say Bulk (or Absorb, if they've reached the absorb setpoint).

- Mike
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
Mike Curran
Forum Czar
 
Posts: 990
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60 (2007)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied.

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Megunticook on Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:48 am

They're in GT Mode. If you have "Grid-Tie Mode" enabled in the MATE3S settings, the charge controllers will use absorption voltage as their target (you actually referenced this setting in another thread (http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=12962).
https://sunnypower.org
User avatar
Megunticook
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:08 am
Location: Maine
My RE system: 6.4 kW solar array (21 QCell 305 panels in strings of 3)
GS8048A FLEXpower Radian (Radian 8048A, 2 FlexMax 80 cc's, Mate 3s, FlexNet DC, Hub)
8x6v Rolls-Surette 550 FLA batteries, 428AH

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Mike Curran on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:58 am

Megunticook wrote:They're in GT Mode. If you have "Grid-Tie Mode" enabled in the MATE3S settings, the charge controllers will use absorption voltage as their target (you actually referenced this setting in another thread (http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=12962).
I've been waiting for a sunny day to take some screen shots to illustrate my point.
Selling post-charge parameters met.PNG
In this screenshot, my system has already met charge parameters and as you can see, it is selling. However, the charge controllers show up in "Bulk", and as you say, they are using the absorb voltage as their target. But since my sell setting is 27.6V, the batteries are constrained at or below that voltage.

Btw, both my charge controllers' local displays indicate they are in Bulk, as you can see (if you squint :smile: )from this photo:
MX&FM in Bulk.jpg
And both are in GT Mode (screenshot only shows FM80 but MX60 is as well):
FM80-GTmode.PNG
Bottom line is, your charge controllers should indicate they are in Bulk when you're selling, after reaching charge parameters met. If they aren't then your system will be constrained by your float voltage setting and you won't be able to sell (unless you set your sell lower than float, which isn't advisable if you want to keep your battery charged). - Mike
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
Mike Curran
Forum Czar
 
Posts: 990
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60 (2007)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied.

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Megunticook on Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:51 am

Interesting. My FM80s both display "GT Mode" on their status screens when the system is selling. But in Optics it indicates they're in "float" typically while selling.

I suppose the FM80s are essentially operating as if in bulk mode when they read "GT Mode," as they're aiming for the bulk/absorb voltate (58.8 in my case) and cranking out as many amps as they can.

This is where I think it's odd that the inverter's internal charger parameter for "float" sometimes seems to limit the voltage when the Radian is selling. Intuitively, I would think the system would be designed so that the "sell voltage" alone limits the voltage when selling to the grid.
https://sunnypower.org
User avatar
Megunticook
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:08 am
Location: Maine
My RE system: 6.4 kW solar array (21 QCell 305 panels in strings of 3)
GS8048A FLEXpower Radian (Radian 8048A, 2 FlexMax 80 cc's, Mate 3s, FlexNet DC, Hub)
8x6v Rolls-Surette 550 FLA batteries, 428AH

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Megunticook on Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:59 am

Mike Curran wrote:I've been waiting for a sunny day to take some screen shots to illustrate my point.


Ah yes, I remember those long gray stretches in a Northeast Ohio winter!

November can be like that here in Maine, but often there's quite a bit of sun in the middle of winter. December was remarkable--my solar production in December (466 kWh) beat February, January, November, and almost matched October!
https://sunnypower.org
User avatar
Megunticook
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:08 am
Location: Maine
My RE system: 6.4 kW solar array (21 QCell 305 panels in strings of 3)
GS8048A FLEXpower Radian (Radian 8048A, 2 FlexMax 80 cc's, Mate 3s, FlexNet DC, Hub)
8x6v Rolls-Surette 550 FLA batteries, 428AH

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Mike Curran on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:30 am

Megunticook wrote:Interesting. My FM80s both display "GT Mode" on their status screens when the system is selling. But in Optics it indicates they're in "float" typically while selling.
Maybe the difference has to do with how your newer Radians behave compared to my antiquated GVFX's. The Mate3 manual does say that it raises the float voltage target to the absorb setting so I suppose that technically they're in float. Whatever works!
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
Mike Curran
Forum Czar
 
Posts: 990
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60 (2007)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied.

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby Megunticook on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:46 am

It may be a difference with the MATE3s, too--I notice you have the MATE3.

I just went to adjust my FNDC parameters to allow for a longer absorb time in the morning before selling (my s.g. readings started to drift a bit, Rolls tech. thought reason might be because I wasn't absorbing for long enough each morning), and next time I checked the system was back in absorb mode (charge parameters had been met earlier today). I couldn't get it back in GT Mode until I changed the Radian's internal charger absorb time to zero and forced the charge controllers into bulk mode.

Every time I think I have a handle on the system I realize I still have lots to learn.

Well, can't complain, it's really performed amazingly well in its first year, couldn't be happier. Sometimes when I tweak the settings around, like I've been doing recently, I run into odd behavior but I guess that's how you learn. Lots of variables interplay!
https://sunnypower.org
User avatar
Megunticook
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:08 am
Location: Maine
My RE system: 6.4 kW solar array (21 QCell 305 panels in strings of 3)
GS8048A FLEXpower Radian (Radian 8048A, 2 FlexMax 80 cc's, Mate 3s, FlexNet DC, Hub)
8x6v Rolls-Surette 550 FLA batteries, 428AH

Re: understanding role of the battery charger settings

Postby JRHill on Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:40 pm

Megunticook wrote:Every time I think I have a handle on the system I realize I still have lots to learn.


I was going to tease but then decided not to do so. My gosh, if you can figure out kids and taxes then the solar is just an additive.
JRHill
Forum Guru
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:12 pm
Location: South central WA
My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.


Return to RADIAN Series

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests