Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Mate3 and Mate3s communications devices for Outback Power
outrigger999
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Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by outrigger999 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:21 am

I've tested this a number of times already and it always results in the same thing. If my network goes down for whatever reason, the Mate 3 cannot recover from that without a reboot. If an active ethernet connection is not present during the reboot, the Mate 3 will not later detect link status and figure out how to start working again. This requires a reboot into a working network connection.

The current 'band-aid' of allowing a reset of the Mate 3 gateway through the Optics RE interface is not effective because if the Gateway is offline it cannot be reset remotely. Outback needs to figure out how to fix the ethernet drivers/hardware permanently; all current solutions are not good enough.

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David LeBow
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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by David LeBow » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:23 pm

Thanks for your post and please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.

We're looking very closely at the Mate3 connectivity issues at the moment and I have brought it up to the top of the priority list. Could you answer a couple of quick questions for me? I'd like to funnel the input back into the development process:

1) What version of Mate3 firmware are you using? We haven't solved all of the problems but have improved some of the connectivity issues vis-à-vis Optics with 3.11.

2) There is an automated reboot facility in 3.11 - admittedly also somewhat of a Band-Aid.

3) What can you say about your Ethernet connection that it's not available at reboot?

Many thanks in advance.
David LeBow
Sr. Director, Software Engineering


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

outrigger999
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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by outrigger999 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:51 pm

Hello, I appreciate that someone from Outback is looking at these forums and your response has been very quick!

1. I'm using the latest firmware 3.11. Admittedly, this firmware is better than the last since I was getting Mate 3 crashes not just due to the ethernet connection on the previous version.

2 & 3. I am aware of the 24 hour reboot feature but in my experience, I've been better off not turning that on. For whatever reason, I'd have instability (again beyond the ethernet connection) if I turned this feature on. I had it on right when it came out for about a week and then opted to turn it off and except for a network outage, my Mate has continued to work (from an OpticsRE perspective). I want to make sure and state that the Mate 3 has seemed to work on the system itself irrespective of OpticsRE and the network, however what I'm specifically talking about here has to do with getting data from OpticsRE; otherwise, why have it!

So if the 24 hour reboot process doesn't work (at least it doesn't work well for me) then manually rebooting is the only other option but if I have a network disconnect, the Mate 3 never reconnects and therefore I cannot do a manual reboot either. In my situation, it is much easier for me to reboot remotely than to visit the Mate 3 directly. All kinds of devices can re-establish connectivity with an ethernet connection (routers, hubs, PCs, etc) but your device cannot for some reason.

As with my other postings, I still think you have a low memory issue on the device and that's causing a lot of the issues here. I would urge you to figure out a solution and not a band-aid since this really interferes with your product.

Thanks, Scott

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by David LeBow » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:00 pm

outrigger999 wrote:As with my other postings, I still think you have a low memory issue on the device and that's causing a lot of the issues here. I would urge you to figure out a solution and not a band-aid since this really interferes with your product.
Again, thanks for your response. We are indeed having some memory issues under certain conditions and we're looking at fixing those. We are definitely striving for a more robust fix. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for your patience. Watch this space!

D.
David LeBow
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Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
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http://www.alpha.com

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by unicornio » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:44 am

Hello everyone!
and hello David LeBow!. happy to see you very active helping in the forum...;-)

I take this opportunity to tell you my opinion since I see that you are an essential element in the policy of software development at OutBack.

I first congratulate you on the great progress that has led the MATE3, and his possibilities of communication. for those who live with the energy that supply our "outbacks" it has been achieving tranquility and peace, knowing at all times the state of our power plant.

the OpticsRE system has also been a breakthrough, but many users think the local web application hosted in MATE3 itself has more important issues for us, and we believe that its development has been relegated to the background. my review would be desirable to have a good application that works autonomously in MATE3, perhaps supplemented by an application for Windows or Mac, regardless of the services outback want to offer their customers in "the cloud."

i think we need a good local application, but with IP connectivity, which can be reached from the outside also if available fixed ip, and has a basic level of access security, I think it would be the first thing outback should offer to meet the needs of absolute monitoring of all plant parameters, to log daily records in real time and too, recorded in a database, and with a full remote control, for us, the end users.

It is just my opinion, my personal contribution, and hoping to help.

best regards,

pd: you can see the application developed in collaboration between Jepefe and me, thats works from collecting data from the datastream of the MATE3:
http://www.jeperez.com/monitor-solar-outback/
http://www.jeperez.com/mate3-explanation-source-code/
http://www.tallerecologicolosunicornios.org/ Monitor On-Line planta de energia solar: http://www.jeperez.com/monitor-solar-outback/ Servico Tecnico Oficial de OutBack en Espa├▒a http://www.viviendaaislada.es/

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by basrijn » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:20 pm

Hi,

Another user frustrated by this bug. My setup is such that in winter the power is off when I'm not at the cabin. When we arrive I turn on the power: networking starts, small server starts etc etc. I run statistics collection on the server, and unless I remember to pull the power to the MATE3 I miss the data until I look at the graphs ](*,)

Not at the cabin very often, but am a programmer and infrastructure guy, so happy to do any type of technical testing you would like me to do

Bas

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by alaskan » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:36 pm

I too have experienced this many times on 3.11.0. Typically the scenario is a reboot of the ethernet switch the Mate3 is connected to. If I do that, I better reboot the Mate3 once the switch has fully rebooted, or else I can't access anything. Not a huge issue, but definite annoying.

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by bluespur » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:31 pm

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the disconnects are happening more frequently this month? I have been stable for a few months now, no changes in my network or Mate3.
Cheers
Garth

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by bluespur » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:43 pm

And on a slightly different note, the 24hour reboot is actually disruptive if you are using AGS, as if the generator is running when the reboot occurs, it stops. This is with 3.11. And the 3.15 fix of a range of durations between reboot can only make this worse, what is required is the ability to set a specific reboot time, rather than what appears to currently be x hours since the last reboot.

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by Eclinden » Tue May 17, 2016 5:02 pm

Any progress on fixing this ethernet connectivity issue?

I have 3.15 installed, auto reset to every 4 hours, but when the power goes out connectivity is lost with the Mate3 until someone unplugs the ethernet cable and plugs it back in. Looks like this problem has been going on for quite a while.

I travel constantly. I can't reach the ethernet cable....

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by basrijn » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:51 pm

Hi,

Now on 3.15.1 and the problem still very much there (possibly even worse). I think somebody in another thread made the observation how insane it is to have basic ethernet issues in this day and age. A $5 IoT device has a rock solid TCP/IP stack, curious to know what the underlying issue is in the MATE3.

I really would like to be able to have some stable graphs of my solar system :(

Bas

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by Eclinden » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:33 pm

Yes. Hard to believe. The system is very unstable. It is getting hot here and the batteries have started to overheat. That did something to the system where it stopped detecting my 2 hour start voltage and would let the power go out. Of course I couldn't see what was happening as I was traveling and this very expensive system can't reconnect to the internet like every other ethernet ready device has been able to do for the last 20 years. Looking at the history the generator would start, run for a couple of minutes, then shut off. It did this over and over again, every 2 minutes. I am back home for the weekend and discover that the generator motor is blown up. This is the second time the Outback system has blown up an expensive generator. The first time was a couple of years ago. I was traveling. When I came back home my neighbor told me that the generator had been running for three days straight. The batteries were cooked and the generator wouldn't start.

Outback is in full liability mode when they talk to me. No solutions. They want pictures of the system blah blah blah...trying to find something that they can point the finger at. Must be something I am doing right? It couldn't be that that their engineering team is creating buggy code and crappy hardware. I have asked them to buy the system back from me so that I can get something else.

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by larrywa » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:38 am

Connectivity cannot change or compensate for setting errors.

These systems are designed and can be set up to run unattended. The connectivity with cloud monitoring is just fluff for assisting the setting process and for us dreamers and fantasy gloaters.

OB makes good quality equipment but the settings take knowledge and experience. I would go back on you installer and push on them to set it to look after itself, not blame the bad monitoring. Yes there have been problems but it never affects how the automatic settings interact with the equipment

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by Eclinden » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:22 am

Sorry. The system is unstable. Why does it work ok for a couple of weeks then lose its mind? The system is buggy. I know the difference. So do others on this forum. I have been doing software development for 30 years and can see design, development and QA problems all over this. The sooner Outback stops blaming customers and accepts responsibility and accountability the better off we will all be.

I suppose I should quit my job and babysit the system 24 hours a day. You know, cycle the mate 3 or 4 times a day ( as recommended by tech support ), unplug and replug the mate3 to regain ethernet ( also recommended ), reload firmware regulary ( recommended ). Outback is producing equipment and software that as a aystem sortof works. There is nonrational excuse for this system to run as expected for 2 weeks, then, when I am out if town, forget how to start the generator at voltage settings until the inverter shuts down then cycle the generator every few minutes until it blows up.

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Hub 10.3,
PV:1000W east@45, 600W west@45, 2400W south@19 deg.
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ISY994 variables via REST interface

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by larrywa » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:57 am

Eclinden wrote:Sorry. The system is unstable. Why does it work ok for a couple of weeks then lose its mind? The system is buggy. I know the difference. So do others on this forum. I have been doing software development for 30 years and can see design, development and QA problems all over this. The sooner Outback stops blaming customers and accepts responsibility and accountability the better off we will all be.

I suppose I should quit my job and babysit the system 24 hours a day. You know, cycle the mate 3 or 4 times a day ( as recommended by tech support ), unplug and replug the mate3 to regain ethernet ( also recommended ), reload firmware regulary ( recommended ). Outback is producing equipment and software that as a aystem sortof works. There is nonrational excuse for this system to run as expected for 2 weeks, then, when I am out if town, forget how to start the generator at voltage settings until the inverter shuts down then cycle the generator every few minutes until it blows up.
I have been writing code since 1974 and this is a new field foe me too.

I hear your frustration but there is some things in that are not to blame.
The Mate3 and Internet / cloud stuff seems new to OB and they are not very adept at creating it, I agree completely. This shouldn't be happening on this scale, agree.

I see their hardware and internal firmware as very bug free and reliable but not the cloud comm stuff from the Mate(x).

Let me tell you one I got caught on.

I equalised my batteries and forgot to open the Styrofoam box, they're are kept in, to help with my cold cellar freezing temperatures, in the winter. By the time I realised it, the bank was up to 50 degrees C.
The next day, the grid-tie did not / would not kick in. I kicked and screamed too....not again!!

Turns out that OB has provided a temperature compensation that will lower the float and bulk voltages to compensate for temperature...nice!
Meanwhile, the Mate3 and FlexMax80 has the switch to discontinue the Bulk / Absorb cycle and it is NOT temperature compensated.
My temperature compensated bulk /absorb voltage at about 45C was not high enough to trigger the Mate3 settings and it decided not to sell any PV to the grid that day. As far as the decision logic was concerned, Bulk level was never reached.

OB fault? Yes, the settings that co-ordinate should be both temperature compensated or both not. Also, lack of instructional information on how to set this up is totally lacking. Of course, they want to support the installation pros so they support their sales. Mate3 is also fairly new and OB is not fast at putting out a working product. made them good at the beginning or different management people?

My fault? Yes. All the information is there, sort of. I should have known better. Learning curve for me. I wasn't as unlucky as you were. I have been working with this system for more than a year and still discover features that are so poorly worded in short form American slang on a miniature screen of the Mate3. (till, wattage, amperage, loadage, kilowatt-hours formulae everywhere) My previous system was in operation for about 10 years and I hacked out a manual with about 256 settings by trial and error from no knowledge at all, just basic energy / power knowledge. :grin:

Yes, I agree, Professional installers and/or Engineers would never work with a system like this. Litigation could/may ensue repeatedly.

I wish you good luck with this and these details are usually hard to hammer into text to find a hint for yourself.

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by SEYLIONE » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:33 am

Hi Everybody
My standalone system is managed bi OB's FP1-34 withe Mate3 (always on)
As it is in the Southern french Alps, under the snow from December to April
I monitor it with a 3GModem-router-WiFi activated every hour by a Raspberry Pi with a small script to read
the json files (192.168.0.64/Dev_status.cgi) and send them to lsdx.eu/GPV_ZSDX. Apart from these rather short periods, Internet is down.

This stopped working last October. I got a new Mate3, it worked about one week, now down again:
Rebooting does the job, but I must be around.

ToDo
a) Is there a way to reboot Mate3 automatically when I power up my communication system every hour? Mate3 is always on
b) I will have a look to try to clear clear data inside Mate3 as it is sent every hour

Thanks for tips
Bye

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by Eclinden » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:06 am

I think you will find that there is no fix. You have to babysit the system wvery day to keep it working. I am traveling and haven't been able to monitor thexsystem for a couple of months. No worries though. The system decided to run my generator continuously and cooked my battery bank before the generator finally failed. It has blown up 2 generators now. Outback owes all of its customers new systems that work, some battery banks and a few generators. Don't expect to see anything soin. If you call tech support they will try to help but thry xan't do anything about A flawed lemon if a system. Management goes into complete liability protective denial and will try to blame you for the problems.

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Management by OutbackPower: FP1-34 including:
FlexMax 80 Charger, GVFX3024E Converter-charger,
FlexNet DC, Hub, Mate3.

Monitoring every 3 hours over Internet (lsdx.eu/GPV_ZSDX)
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Location: Serre-Chevalier, France

Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by SEYLIONE » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:32 am

hI Eclinden,
That may be a bit pessimistic.
I "hope" OB is working on it.
Presently I did reset my Mate3 and it started again to work normally Which it dit for the last 2 1/2 years.
Have a look at lsdx.eu/GPV_ZSDX for the last few days and before November 2015
My only problem is to have someone to reset my Mate 3 if I am away and thing get bad again.

Bye

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by Eclinden » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:37 am

I wish I was a pessimist about this. It is exactly what has happened. You would think that after a couple of years that this would have been resolved, but it hasn't.

The mate3 cannot recover from an internet outage. You can change a setting to reset the mate3 every few hours. This is what tech support recommended to me but it still won't recover from an internet outage.

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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by sodamo » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:47 pm

My observation (which might be wrong of course):
Sometimes the System goes offline, and we don't know why, especially if the Internet connection is up. While it is very nice that OB now tells us of pre planned outage (thanks David), they really need to be forthcoming about ALL outages on their end. I really don't need to know the details, just a simple message that the outage is on their end.
Other times it goes offline because the Internet is down. Here again, why not a message that states it is offline due to loss of Ethernet?
Sometimes it seems to recover other times not.
I'm thinking if the mysterious offline happens while the Internet is down or vice versa the system usually doesn't recover without a physical reboot. As we all know that physical reboot requires us to pull the plug in person, no way to accomplish remotely.
OB needs to make error messages more informative.
If system loses Ethernet connection say so, and say when it recovered.
If system is down for any non Ethernet reason, say so. It is very frustrating trying to chase the unknown. It appears that OB likes us to think the trouble is always on our end, but in reality it isn't. I know my internet goes down, nothing I can do about it other than contact my provider, but I hate trying to fix a problem that isn't mine.
David
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SEYLIONE
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4 Bosch 245Wp Panels, 12 OPzS 2V 1 220Ah batteries
Management by OutbackPower: FP1-34 including:
FlexMax 80 Charger, GVFX3024E Converter-charger,
FlexNet DC, Hub, Mate3.

Monitoring every 3 hours over Internet (lsdx.eu/GPV_ZSDX)
by 3G managed by a local microcomputer and router.
Location: Serre-Chevalier, France

Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by SEYLIONE » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:40 pm

Right Sodamo,
Our dear OB IT specialists must learn to think customerwise, not techwise!
A very common problem with IT!
Lionel

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2 x GVFX3648s,
2 x FM80s,
FNDC w/3 shunts,
Mate3 v3.015.005 (works excellent!)
Hub 10.3,
PV:1000W east@45, 600W west@45, 2400W south@19 deg.
Battery:48v @ 130Ahr Crown batteries, deep cycle <$380 for 6.25kWh

ISY994i HA, Insteon, X10, Philips Hue, MiLight bulbs & RGBW strips
WebControl 8 as weather station stuffing
ISY994 variables via REST interface

Raspberry Pi3 x 2, Pi1 B+

Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by larrywa » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:24 pm

No.

OB just needs to get a contract consultant programmer in, that understands the ways of the Internet and data communications.

They have floundered with this for a few years and need to become a professional company again and do what is needed.

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36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
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4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by sodamo » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:24 pm

What do you know, happened again today!!!!
Knew there was something wrong on my internet this morning, Speedtest showed about 13mbps down, but failed the upload. OpticsRE appeared to report data until about 9AM. Didn't think much more about it as I had mowing etc to get done and when I took a break the Internet was back up, wife had been doing the normal Sunday family FaceTimes. When finished, sometime after 5, figured I'd check in on OpticsRE, see how the system was doing. OFFLINE, been offline since 8:19 until I pulled the plug and reset at 1752. But of course we know all isn't lost, Mate3 just saves the data to the sd card, guess that's that nice 24.6 kWh spike after the 8 hour blank spot. Never found out what the Internet problem was for a few hours, but I'd guess my OpticsRE would still be OFFLINE if I hadn't checked and rebooted. GRRRRRRRRRR
David
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Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by Eclinden » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:31 am

Wait until you are out of town, the internet burps, then the mate3 decides to run your generator continuously. Or it resets settings for charge points, or any other number of things it decides to do because of flawed programming or hardware. I suspect that there is memory leak, an array going out of bounds, or something causing memory and instructions to become corrupted. The inability of the mate 3 to recover from an internet burp, like any other internet enabled device in the world can do, is predictable. It happens every time. The other random things are not predictable and can really damage your batteries or generator. It may be a better idea to let the inverter handle the charging and generator and ditch the mate3. That is probably what I will do when I can save enough money to buy another battery bank and another generator. Wouldn't it be nice though if OB would own up to this, fix it, and replace ALL of the defective equipment.

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My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Mate 3 Cannot Recover from Ethernet Outage

Post by sodamo » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:10 pm

Yea, that's my concern :(
I leave next week and will be gone nearly a month.
Have a house sitter but their primary function is taking care of the dogs. While perfectly capable of rebooting the Mate 3 (did so last year), I have to tell him. If I'm only guessing why I don't see my OpticRE then not very confidence inspiring. Add in the time difference between Europe and Hawaii. This really should have been fixed by now.
I have conveyed my concerns to OB via email.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

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