PSDC labelling -ETL what is Canadian CSA/UL equivalent

Discussion about the Power System DC Disconnect (PSDC)

Moderators: OutBack Moderator Team, OutBack

Post Reply
chris olthuis
Forum Whiz
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Barrie

PSDC labelling -ETL what is Canadian CSA/UL equivalent

Post by chris olthuis » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:06 am

I've installed my system and had the inspector note the PSDC does not have a valid CANADIAN label so before he approves the installation I have to show it conforms to Canadian Code......

Can you advise the UL equivalent or otherwise so we can show it conforms?

PS2DC - 250

Please reply soonest so I can finish this up!! Thanks!

Chris[/i]

DavidB
Forum Guru
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 11:01 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by DavidB » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:00 am

An ETL label is the same as having a UL label. The ETL label is your assurance that the product meets the safety requirements of electrical inspection authorities in the CSA (Canada) and the UL (USA). ETL might be used because it may be cheaper to certify through them than the UL.

Do local inspectors know the ETL Listed Mark?

The ETL Listed Mark is recognized by local inspectors and Authorities Having Jurisdiction (AHJs) throughout North America and also in some areas of South America.

chris olthuis
Forum Whiz
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Barrie

Post by chris olthuis » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:37 am

The inspector is still insisting that there should be a small c next to the ETL mark, which there is on the inverter and the charge controller, but not on the DC box. Why is there not a small c on the DC box label ? What other insight could I use to persuade the inspector it is o.k.

Thanks Chris

chris olthuis
Forum Whiz
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Barrie

Post by chris olthuis » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:04 am

Hi
To all Canada purchaser of Out back products. When you receive your out back produces make sure that the ETL mark on the produces have a small c on the lower left hand corner. Electrical inspectors will not approve your installation with out it. My PS2 doesnÔÇÖt have that small c, but after correspondence with Out Back they have assured me that the PS2 does comply and have sent out a new label.

So save your self-a headache and check the markings.
Thank you OutBack for your help in this matter.

Chris

DJ
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:42 am
Location: Off-Grid in Quebec
Contact:

Post by DJ » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:18 pm

chris olthuis wrote: Hi
To all Canada purchaser of Out back products. When you receive your out back produces make sure that the ETL mark on the produces have a small c on the lower left hand corner. Electrical inspectors will not approve your installation with out it.
"Will not" is pretty strong. I've had installs of mine inspected by the ESA, the Ontario Electrical Safety Agency, and as long as there's *somebody's* mark on it, it's usually "good enough". Yes, they'd prefer the UL(c) or ETL(c) to the garden variety, though.
That goes for all components, not just OutBack stuff...

DJ
"Temporem Triremi Curtate; Ceteri Expectant"

chris olthuis
Forum Whiz
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Barrie

Post by chris olthuis » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:25 pm

I guess it depends on the inspector, and how closely they follow the code.
I find in the Toronto area they follow the code closely.

Chris

DJ
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:42 am
Location: Off-Grid in Quebec
Contact:

Post by DJ » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:35 pm

chris olthuis wrote:I guess it depends on the inspector, and how closely they follow the code.
I find in the Toronto area they follow the code closely.
Last ESA-inspected install I did was within the boundaries of the City of Ottawa. And yep, it's very inspector and situation specific.
The one before was for Parks Canada down near Kingston.

Thing is, most inspectors look at a DC installation like a monkey doing a math problem, to be honest. They're in waaaaaay over their heads and they know it, and they're not usually happy about it.

My background, besides being a journeyman millwright, is about five years of doing industrial electrical, so my installs tend to look "solid", and when they see the contractor licence numbers (licenced for the installation of electricity generation equipment by the government of Quebec, recognized as valid by the province of Ontario) on my truck, and know the job was done by a "real company", not some hippie hobbiest, it tends to go a long way towards reducing the friction.

DJ
"Temporem Triremi Curtate; Ceteri Expectant"

DJ
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:42 am
Location: Off-Grid in Quebec
Contact:

Post by DJ » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:41 pm

DJ wrote: a "real company", not some hippie hobbiest
And just to be clear, Chris, I'm not suggesting you're one of those hippies ;-).

It's just that alot of my so-called "competition" in this area is very much so. Which isn't so bad, really. If I don't get the job in the first place, I tend to get the job *fixing* the install later ;-).

DJ
"Temporem Triremi Curtate; Ceteri Expectant"

chris olthuis
Forum Whiz
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Barrie

Post by chris olthuis » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:17 am

Yes you are correct some inspectors donÔÇÖt know what they are looking at, which is precisely my point, that is why they look for the stickers, for approved equipment use in Canada. Be careful how you brand inspectors they are becoming more informed daily. Oh and by the way, I am a licensed Electrical Contractor.

Chris

DJ
Forum Virtuoso
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:42 am
Location: Off-Grid in Quebec
Contact:

Post by DJ » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:03 am

chris olthuis wrote:Yes you are correct some inspectors donÔÇÖt know what they are looking at, which is precisely my point, that is why they look for the stickers, for approved equipment use in Canada. Be careful how you brand inspectors they are becoming more informed daily. Oh and by the way, I am a licensed Electrical Contractor.
Chris
True enough, when confused, they go looking for the familiar, and those stickers are a good touchstone.

Up this way, though, Chris, heck, even most journeymen electricians don't are none to comfortable with this DC stuff, let alone the inspectors. ESA's guys, though, the ones I've dealt with are at least pleasantly curious, which is good. And true enough, thanks to Canadian Tire, at least people are familiar with the concept ;-).

Now, in Ontario, or rather, every province and territory save Quebec, there is no requisite licencing for installing this stuff. So your "competition" is any tom, dick, or harry with a screwdriver, a dealer price list, and the will to do it. And without any pesky overhead like licencing, insurance, or operating costs that we contractors have. Are you finding that difficult? Myself, I find my Ontario clients tend then to be the odd ones that for one reason or another, need to have a licenced contractor, and, as I said, there aren't any around here that I know of that do alternative; they're all getting all the work they want doing conventional.

In Quebec, as I mentioned, there *IS* certification for this, a contractor licence for the "installation of electricity generating equipment" covering anything from nuclear to photovoltaic. No licence, no work. And working without that licence is inviting fines of thousands of dollars for the installer AS WELL AS the home/business owner, yes, you heard that right. They'll fine the people that hired the illegal contractor, too.

Ah, someday this will be a Trade, a combination millwright/electrician, maybe...

DJ
"Temporem Triremi Curtate; Ceteri Expectant"

Post Reply