Force "Charge Parameters Met"?

An area for discussing the OutBack FLEXnet DC product.

Moderators: OutBack Moderator Team, OutBack

Force "Charge Parameters Met"?

Postby Lance on Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:47 am

The only time I've seen the LED status of my FNDC show a blinking green was when it was brand new and powered up for the very first time. Now, almost two months later, I've gone through at least a dozen cycles and one Equalization cycle. The most the status will do is show the LEDs for 100% charged. I've also charged the bank and verified with a current meter and SG readings that the bank was full and then again removed the data cable and reconnected to reset it. Still only reads 100%.
Is there a way to force this? I'm thinking there must be, because it displayed this when new, and even then, the batteries were really only at about 85%. I was considering a factory defaults reset, but I'd prefer another way - if there is one...
Thanks!
Lance
30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B
Lance
Forum Expert
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:36 am
My RE system: 30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B

Re: Force "Charge Parameters Met"?

Postby Kent Osterberg on Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:43 am

When the FNDC was first powered up the charged parameters were probably still set to the default values which were probably not appropriate for your batteries. In this situation the blinking green light is meaningless. The blinking green light and the blinking 100% on the Mate indicate that the charged parameters are met. If the charged parameters are set correctly the blinking green light and the blinking 100% on the Mate will tell you that the batteries are nearly full. I'm pretty sure that there is no other situation that the green light will blink and there is no point in forcing it to blink.

Since your batteries are really full after the equalization, you may need to adjust the charged parameters. But maybe not. What was the specific gravity before the equalization was done? Where the batteries really full the before the equalization was done? If they were, then the charge parameters probably need to be adjusted. If they weren't fully charged until after the equalization, then maybe they don't need to be adjusted. During equalizing the finishing current will be higher than it would be during an absorption charge. If the finishing current is above the current set in the charged parameters, the blinking green light won't come on.
Kent Osterberg
Forum Emperor
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:01 pm
Location: Cove, Oregon
My RE system: SMA Sunny Boy 2500 with eight Mobil Solar Ra 180 modules

Re: Force "Charge Parameters Met"? >TAKE 2<

Postby Lance on Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Kent, and all other distinguished experts..
Yes, your point about 'what's the sense in trying to force it' is well taken. I blame the frustration :)

I'll try to be as brief as possible;
I have 24 L16RE-B's (6v) in three strings of eight.
Trojan says 1.277 is fully charged. When installing them in Nov, they ranged from 1.245 to 1.260 (They sat for a month)
My Settings:
BULK = 59.2
ABSORB = 57.6
FLOAT = 52.8
EQUALIZE = 62
SELL > 52.4
CC RETURN AMPS = 15
MAX AMPS on charge = 127
Charging seems to end on it's own before current (with a clamp meter) stops dropping. How can I just set it and not have it quit until *I* say it's done? Between the Mate3, Inverter,FM80s,FNDC, something always seems to get in the way and either move to the next phase early, or stop. Until I resolve all the conflicting settings, I would be satisfied to "babysit it through a cycle".

At 59.2v, with SGs at about 1.240's current will drop from about 125A down to about 30A Trojan guide says three strings should get to about 15A. This phase will take about 4 hours. And when I check the SGs again, they are in the low 1.260s. I'm thinking they are not done yet. Right?
If I immediately do another Bulk, it runs really short ~ 20 minutes and moves to float. What do I change to make it stay in Bulk longer? I tried this using both the FM80s and the Radian's built in charger. Both seem to act about the same.
After several frustrating false starts and short cycles, I decided to do an EQ. Trojan says that with SGs that far apart, I should equalize anyway.
Again, the EQ quit 3 times before SGs were up in the 1.270s - So I just kept restarting it.
Yesterday, I finally had all SGs above 1.270, and after the EQ current dropped to about 22A, I let it stop.
This is when I thought it would be possible to somehow force the "Parameters Met" and start with a fresh bank at 1.275-ish

Is there a list of exactly which Parameters are required in order to meet "Parameters Met". Are all these parameters in one place? The seem spread across the CC, the Radian, the Mate3, etc..
Any suggestions for different parameters than what I have set?
To reiterate, it would be great to turn off all the (intelligence) and just be a dumb charger while I keep a close watch. Then have the charger let ME decide when to shift to the next phase. This would teach me what currents and voltages to set in the automated algorithms. Make sense?

Really anxious to learn!

Lance
30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B
Lance
30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B
Lance
Forum Expert
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:36 am
My RE system: 30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B

Re: Force "Charge Parameters Met"?

Postby Kent Osterberg on Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:12 pm

The charger settings that you have listed are a little confusing. The bulk target voltage of 59.2 is consistent with Trojan's recommendations. The absorption setting is not, it is too low. Since neither the Radian nor the FM 80 has a bulk target voltage setting other than the absorption setting, it isn't clear how things are actually set up. The absorption setting should be 59.2 volts, or at least close to that.

Given sufficient time, a lead acid battery will reach 100% SOC just being charged at 54 volts. It would probably take two or three days of being at that voltage constantly. The reason I mention this is that time is the essential ingredient. The length of the absorption time, which you didn't mention, is more important than the voltage. The default time for the Radian is 1 hour which is way too short; it probably needs to be three hours, and possibly even more. If the system stops charging before it should the absorption time needs to be adjusted upward. But remember it isn't necessary for the batteries to reach full charge every day. And by the way, a long absorption time, which is probably needed for good battery health, can have an adverse effect on the grid sell feature.

You can use the FNDC to terminate the charging with a generator when the batteries reach 90%. But if you don't also set up the system to charge until full every week or so, the batteries will suffer from chronic deficient charging. I don't think that feature works when charging with grid power. However, you can force the inverter to charge until the charged parameters are met by setting the absorption time to an arbitrarily long value and enabling Charge Termination Control to stop the charging process.

Your battery capacity is 1110 amphours, so 15 amps is 1.4%C. Trojan says the termination current should be between 1% and 3% of the battery capacity. it will vary with battery age and battery temperature. To get down to 1.4%C may take longer than you want to wait.
Kent Osterberg
Forum Emperor
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:01 pm
Location: Cove, Oregon
My RE system: SMA Sunny Boy 2500 with eight Mobil Solar Ra 180 modules

Re: Force "Charge Parameters Met"? >TAKE 3<

Postby Lance on Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:45 pm

Thanks again Kent,
You're right about the confusing parameters I have set.. That will teach me not to cut and paste from my notes.
I have:
ABSORB 59.1v 4hrs
FLOAT 52.8
REBULK 50.0
END AMPS (now set to) 18A

I've tried to turn off all 'smarts' in each component to make things easier to manage and predict..
However, I do have CC FLOAT COORDINATION = Y and GLOBAL CHARGER = Y and 127A

So today, the cloudy daylight came and both CCs started up with a wimpy ~250 watts each.
The batteries were already showing 96% anyway..
The odd occurrence of the day was that both CCs did not act the same.
The Port 3 CC showed a status of CHARGED after BULKING for 3 hours and FLOATING for :22
The Port 4 CC showed FLOAT after BULKING also about 3 hrs. But the end of day showed that it FLOATED for 4:14.
In fact, CC3 Went from BULK to FLOAT to CHARGED to SLEEP. CC4 Went from BULK to FLOAT to SLEEP.
Shouldn't they follow the same schedule and status?
I've checked and checked. All parameters are the same. Maybe the Firmware? They were both purchased together and are only about 2 months old.
Lance
30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B
Lance
Forum Expert
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:36 am
My RE system: 30xCS6P-260M,2xFM80,Radian 8048,GSLC-175PV,FNDC,MATE3,24xL16RE-B

Re: Force "Charge Parameters Met"?

Postby Kent Osterberg on Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:46 am

I wouldn't worry much about the charge controllers doing different things. Float coordination makes them both go to float when one does. But small differences in their calibration can still make them do different things. In the case of going from sleep to float voltage regulation. When the first one goes to float it can prevent the other from waking up from sleep mode. Later in the day, when one array wasn't sufficient to maintain the float, the second one started helping. It really doesn't matter that the charge controllers aren't all doing the same thing at the same time.
Kent Osterberg
Forum Emperor
 
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:01 pm
Location: Cove, Oregon
My RE system: SMA Sunny Boy 2500 with eight Mobil Solar Ra 180 modules


Return to FLEXnet DC

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests