AC hot out function question for newbie

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Dixie4880
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:57 pm
My RE system: VFXR3524A

AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Dixie4880 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:53 pm

Hello, I'm brand new here and we are getting ready to connect our VFXR3524A to a 120V breaker. We aren't using a subpanel as shown in the schematics for the AC hot out. Do we actually need to connect AC hot out if the AC hot in is connected? I think I saw that the grid will be fed from the AC hot in. Am I correct in my assumptions?. We aren't looking at powering any loads when the grid goes down. We just want to tie into the grid to test our wind/solar system.

Wonderful inverter by the way!

thanks for the help,
Jeff

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Mike Curran » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:34 am

Dixie4880 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:53 pm
Hello, I'm brand new here and we are getting ready to connect our VFXR3524A to a 120V breaker. We aren't using a subpanel as shown in the schematics for the AC hot out. Do we actually need to connect AC hot out if the AC hot in is connected? I think I saw that the grid will be fed from the AC hot in. Am I correct in my assumptions?. We aren't looking at powering any loads when the grid goes down. We just want to tie into the grid to test our wind/solar system.
If you're just testing then you don't need anything connected to the AC out, although not sure if that's gonna be a test that "covers all the bases".

You will need a battery as the VFXR won't work without it.

Is your ultimate plan to use the AC out to power some loads? If not, it's not clear (to me, anyway) what the goal of your system is.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by fcwlp » Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:05 pm

Dixie4880 wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:53 pm
Hello, I'm brand new here and we are getting ready to connect our VFXR3524A to a 120V breaker. We aren't using a subpanel as shown in the schematics for the AC hot out. Do we actually need to connect AC hot out if the AC hot in is connected? I think I saw that the grid will be fed from the AC hot in. Am I correct in my assumptions?. We aren't looking at powering any loads when the grid goes down. We just want to tie into the grid to test our wind/solar system.
If you are looking to test grid interaction, DO NOT CONNECT THE AC OUT TO THE GRID. If you do you will destroy your inverter. You do not need to connect the AC Hot Out to anything to do your testing.

Like Mike said you will need a battery. You will also need a charge controller. Power flow is PV panels/wind turbine -> CC -> battery bank -> inverter -> grid.

Dixie4880
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:57 pm
My RE system: VFXR3524A

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Dixie4880 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:44 pm

Thanks for the help.. I think I found the answer before I saw this post.. but thanks anyway.. It's up and running. yea.
One more question please... How do I set up the mate3 so our solar and wind is selling to the grid more? We've only had this online a few days and it seems our batteries are fully charged and our 'out to grid' is hardly doing anything. Maybe .2kw per day,. I'm reading all the literature and hoping to find an answer, but hopefully someone here can help as well.. seems there is a lot to learn about the setup. out installation is pretty simple.. two charge controllers from midnite. One for solar other for wind, both tied directly to our 24v battery bank. Outback is tied into the batteries and working, but I think there may be a setting we can change to get more output to the grid.

thanks in advance,
Jeff.

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by fcwlp » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:21 pm

If your selling something, the first thing to check is your sell voltage. On OpticsRE go to the inverter -> AC input. Try a "sell voltage" that is ~1.5V below your float voltage.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Mike Curran » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm

fcwlp wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:21 pm
If your selling something, the first thing to check is your sell voltage. On OpticsRE go to the inverter -> AC input. Try a "sell voltage" that is ~1.5V below your float voltage.
Not to butt in here, but might be better to set your sell voltage at your desired float setting, and raise the float setting 1.5 volts above that. That way your battery will be sitting at float voltage when it's selling (hopefully most of the time) rather than 1.5 volts lower.

Again, 2 cents' worth.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by fcwlp » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:26 am

Mike Curran wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 pm
Not to butt in here, but might be better to set your sell voltage at your desired float setting, and raise the float setting 1.5 volts above that. That way your battery will be sitting at float voltage when it's selling (hopefully most of the time) rather than 1.5 volts lower.

Again, 2 cents' worth.
The 1.5V was the recommendation from the Outback training class that I took for lead-acid batteries. I have been also run sub 1V below float. Setting float voltage too high on the inverter, could impact battery life if system is not selling. Especially if you have your CC float V set higher (0.2V for 24V or 0.4V for 48V) than the inverter's float V.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Mike Curran » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:11 pm

Good point. The same thing (or worse) could happen if a grid-tied system is selling with the float voltage "adjusted" to the bulk setting after charge parameters have been met, and for some reason selling stops - like for a grid outage, or if grid voltage goes high and the inverter stops selling. This isn't unusual for my system where at times grid input is too high for my inverters to sell, and I discover my batteries have been sitting at absorb for who knows how long. Only solution for me is to drop the grid altogether until voltage returns to normal.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by fcwlp » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:10 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:11 pm
his isn't unusual for my system where at times grid input is too high for my inverters to sell, and I discover my batteries have been sitting at absorb for who knows how long. Only solution for me is to drop the grid altogether until voltage returns to normal.
Is this a case of the grid voltage being too high or the grid impedance being too low? If grid voltage is too high, you could adjust the upper grid input limits on the Grid Interface Protect menu but that probably entails other issues.

Dixie4880
Forum Junior Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:57 pm
My RE system: VFXR3524A

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Dixie4880 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:30 pm

thanks guys.. I'll make those changes tonight and see how it goes. appreciate the knowledge. I set the sell to the float setting and raised the float 1.5v..

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by fcwlp » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:37 am

Dixie4880 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:30 pm
thanks guys.. I'll make those changes tonight and see how it goes. appreciate the knowledge. I set the sell to the float setting and raised the float 1.5v..
Keep your float V at what the battery manufacturer recommends. Start with a sell voltage 1.5V below float and observe. Then incrementally increase the sell V and observe until you think you have an optimum.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Mike Curran » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:19 pm

fcwlp wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:10 pm
Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:11 pm
his isn't unusual for my system where at times grid input is too high for my inverters to sell, and I discover my batteries have been sitting at absorb for who knows how long. Only solution for me is to drop the grid altogether until voltage returns to normal.
Is this a case of the grid voltage being too high or the grid impedance being too low? If grid voltage is too high, you could adjust the upper grid input limits on the Grid Interface Protect menu but that probably entails other issues.
Well, I get a "Inverter on port 7 High AC Input Voltage" warning so assuming high grid voltage. I've already set my inverter grid tie window to "user", which allows a higher grid input voltage - 130V (default is IEEE, dont know what the high limit is for that setting). The other high voltage limit setting in this screenshot is for what's acceptable to pass thru to my loads. I don't have a grid interface protection menu, AFAIK.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mi75VB ... p=drivesdk
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by fcwlp » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:21 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:19 pm
've already set my inverter grid tie window to "user", which allows a higher grid input voltage - 130V (default is IEEE, dont know what the high limit is for that setting). The other high voltage limit setting in this screenshot is for what's acceptable to pass thru to my loads. I don't have a grid interface protection menu, AFAIK.
IEEE 1547 specifies OV1 as 132 VAC and OV2 as 144VAC, so you should be able to bump it up to 132V at least.

The GVFX inverters did not get that upgrade to the GIP (Grid Interface Protection) menus. It happened a few years ago with all the changes that CA, HI, and Puerto Rico were putting on the grid tie settings.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: AC hot out function question for newbie

Post by Mike Curran » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:13 pm

IEEE 1547 specifies OV1 as 132 VAC and OV2 as 144VAC, so you should be able to bump it up to 132V at least.
It's not settable. 130V appears to be the setpoint for IEEE, at least that's the point where it clears.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

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