SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

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raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:05 am

What charging parameters do you use for your 48V SimpliPhi 3.8 battery?

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Greg T Fordan
OutBack Technical Service
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:56 pm
My RE system: Radian, FM80, FNDC, 48V batt bank

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by Greg T Fordan » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:34 am

Greg T Fordan
EngTech
Outback Power Technologies

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:01 am

Thanks Greg. Studying this guide (and the equivalent SimpliPhi app notes) still creates some questions.
20200730_065612.jpg
Assuming the maximum DoD of 80%, the guide specifies Inverter (Absorb) charging voltage of 54.4V for 1 hour. However, the Charge Controller charging voltage is 56.4V for 1 hour. Why is there inverter voltage settings for different DoD targets, but the Charge Controller is set to essentially maximum possible charging voltage?

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by Mike Curran » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 am

I think that 56.4 volt setting is for both 90% and 100% DOD. The 80% DOD absorb setting for the CC is 54.8 volts, if I'm reading the chart correctly. But I guess that still raises a question, although 0,4 volts is a minor difference...
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:39 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 am
I think that 56.4 volt setting is for both 90% and 100% DOD. The 80% DOD absorb setting for the CC is 54.8 volts, if I'm reading the chart correctly. But I guess that still raises a question, although 0,4 volts is a minor difference...
Guess I need new glasses. Your reading makes sense. Thanks Mike.

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:02 am

I'm still a bit confused about charging parameters for the 3.8 @ 48V battery. (I'm easily confused.) Looking at Outback's published guide, and SimpliPhi's published guide, there are some values that don't agree, AFIK.
Screenshot_20200731-064305_Word.jpg


The section on charge controller configuration refers to the FM100 AFCI. Can we assume the other charge controllers (e.g.: FM80) are programmed the same?

The Absorb Voltage of 56.4V aligns with the OB app notes 100% DoD charging spec, but the Absorb Times disagree (OB = 1H, SP = 0.1H)
Screenshot_20200731-064100_Word.jpg

Similarly, the Inverter charger shows a different Absorb Time when charging from generator. (I'm not even trying to rationalize the Grid charging specs.)
Screenshot_20200731-063903_Word.jpg
Has anyone figured out the actual charging parameters to be used when using these batteries in an off-grid setting?

Does anyone track end Amps (2% of capacity) for charge termination?

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by Mike Curran » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:55 am

Ray - Mark Walters' posts in this thread might help shed some light: http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic ... 47&t=14975
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:12 am

Thanks Mike. I remember reading that, but it wasn't of vital interest to me at the time. 😉

My sense of making sense of charging by watching End Amps is confirmed, and that's what I'll do.

Aloha!

sodamo
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Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by sodamo » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 am

raysun wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:05 am
What charging parameters do you use for your 48V SimpliPhi 3.8 battery?
So are you getting these?
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:12 am

sodamo wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 am
raysun wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:05 am
What charging parameters do you use for your 48V SimpliPhi 3.8 battery?
So are you getting these?
Eventually (before the end of the year.) Right now, I'm helping a friend with commissioning theirs.

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EA6LE-ONE
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My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:32 am

Anyone here got the lithium batteries working more than 6 years with no problem? Their specs are great, a bit expensive but is here anyone that own or service a solar system with lithium batteries working for long time maybe closer to their life limit that can share their experience?

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:58 am

EA6LE-ONE wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:32 am
Anyone here got the lithium batteries working more than 6 years with no problem? Their specs are great, a bit expensive but is here anyone that own or service a solar system with lithium batteries working for long time maybe closer to their life limit that can share their experience?
Its doubtful there will be much testimony as most consumer level lithium batteries are less than 6 years old.

The early ones are mostly Chi-Comm packs of decidedly variable quality. Anybody still running Thunder Sky/ Winston cells?

The Peoples' Liberation Army Air Force is well represented, initially as CASC, then CATL, the world's 2nd largest Lithium battery manufacturer.

CATL cells are cheap and plentiful, making them a favorite among the DIY crowd, but that crowd was still pretty much in metaphorical diapers 6 years ago.

Nope, mostly the track record doesn't speak especially well to the marketing promises of the current vendors, most all of whom are in relative infancy. SimpliPhi claims manufacturing since 2002. However, they were making batteries for the military mostly, and longevity was not a concern there. My Afganistan war veteran friends all recount stories of burning piles of lithium batteries after 9-12 months of service.

User avatar
EA6LE-ONE
Forum Guru
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 am
My RE system: System 1:
MATE3s, 3 x Radian GS8048A,
4 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10,
2 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 4 x FLEXware ICS Plus,
54 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W

System 2:
MATE3s, 2 x VFX3648,
2 x FLEXmax 100, HUB10
1 x EnergyCell 48V 2700RE,
1 x FLEXnet DC, 2 x FLEXware ICS
21 x PANASONIC VBHN325SA17 325W
Location: Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Isl.

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:28 pm

Looking at all the lithium batteries that are in our phones, laptops and any gadgets using them and keep getting that 3 years or less life expectancy, I am still afraid to switch to them until there is more real life usage and not the lab test numbers. I still have about 10 years or more (I hope) on my batteries and by that time the price will come down and will be more proven as technology. But by then a new battery technology will be out and then new challenges to chose the right one ...

With you switching to them soon, I will be happy to read your messages about your experience with them and giving us a peace of mind for the future battery choice. :)

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:03 pm

EA6LE-ONE wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:28 pm
Looking at all the lithium batteries that are in our phones, laptops and any gadgets using them and keep getting that 3 years or less life expectancy, I am still afraid to switch to them until there is more real life usage and not the lab test numbers. I still have about 10 years or more (I hope) on my batteries and by that time the price will come down and will be more proven as technology. But by then a new battery technology will be out and then new challenges to chose the right one ...

With you switching to them soon, I will be happy to read your messages about your experience with them and giving us a peace of mind for the future battery choice. :)
Other folks are ahead of the curve here with SimpliPhi installations that are way more involved than mine will be. Everybody is waiting to see how it all works out. Not much to do but wait and see.

Right now, I'd say @sodamo is leading the parade. I can even begin to describe his system, but I think it provides power to the north end of Hawaii Island.

I'm helping some folks in Haiti get their new battery up and running. Is eight 3.8 @ 48V monoblocks. Since they are a mission school and not a bunch of technicians, they have burned through 2 sets of big FLA batteries in the past 3 years. It will be interesting to see how the Lithiun cells fare. Hopefully much better with some monitoring and proper maintenance.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by Mike Curran » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:14 pm

Million mile batteries are coming...

https://www.economist.com/science-and-t ... ctric-cars
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by raysun » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:21 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:14 pm
Million mile batteries are coming...

https://www.economist.com/science-and-t ... ctric-cars
Yep. A lot of promising advancements - just over the horizon. One will succeed, and there is no doubt the $2.5k battery block of today will in 10 years cost $2.5k and have 6-10 x capacity/durability. I'd buy the battery that beside coming with a warranty, comes with a will.

For now, I've got to replace my battery soon, so best available and hope for the best.

sodamo
Forum Czar
Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: SimpliPhi 3.8 @ 48V charging profile

Post by sodamo » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:42 am

Cute Raysun
You know I only power the Hamakua Coast 😄

Almost 9 months in and still quite happy with my SimpliPhis. Currently running about 23-24 kWh usage per day. Still haven’t had a needed generator run since Jan 15.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

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