In a bit of a bind, pic included

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In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby breamer999 on Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:36 am

I've moved my Outback to a sealed room outside, so I am running AC to the house. Too many details as to why I forgot to take a before pic, but his is how the sub panel looks now
I'm not an expert but I have a couple of questions. What is the short black wire that is 'jumped' to the top left?. Also where does the AC from the Outback come in and attach. I am grid tied. I flip the breaker from right to left to go off grid. Also I assume with the AC in, the electricity will from out of the house to the inverter to enable me to charge batteries from grid correct?, I don't need another AC run out of the house to the OUtback. I guess my question is the AC line running from outside to this panel can send current back out. If anyone can try to decipher this it would be appreciated. The electrician I have now is a bit frustrated trying to figure out what the previous electrician did

Thanks
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breamer999
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Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:52 pm
My RE system: Outback VFX2812, Surrette S-530 (x4) + 1.5kw of panels

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby Mike Curran on Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:10 pm

breamer999 wrote:What is the short black wire that is 'jumped' to the top left?. Also where does the AC from the Outback come in and attach. I am grid tied. I flip the breaker from right to left to go off grid. Also I assume with the AC in, the electricity will from out of the house to the inverter to enable me to charge batteries from grid correct?, I don't need another AC run out of the house to the OUtback. I guess my question is the AC line running from outside to this panel can send current back out. If anyone can try to decipher this it would be appreciated. The electrician I have now is a bit frustrated trying to figure out what the previous electrician did

Thanks


It's looks like that jumper is connecting the normal L1 and L2 buses together to create a single 120V AC bus to feed all your AC loads. Since you only have a single VFX you can only have one "hot" leg to feed everything, so he jumpered them so your subpanel matches your VFX's capability. BTW it also matches each of the 2 red jumpers on either side of the breaker bus - guess he wanted to make sure, I don't know...

The black and white wires at top left look like your AC into the subpanel from the grid. These are only there to allow you to supply your loads from the grid while performing maintenance on your system, that's what the bypass switch is for. So your VFX AC output wires should connect on the opposite side of the panel from those, basically on the other side of the bypass switch.

In order for your VFX to charge your battery it will need another 120V AC supply connected to its AC IN terminals. That supply should come from your main house breaker panel. Don't know where your VFX is at, but you should be able to use the same AC supply that's feeding your bypass switch - with its own separate breaker, of course. If you want to operate COMPLETELY off-grid, you would open that AC breaker feeding the AC IN terminals on your VFX. But its normal operating mode is connected to grid as a battery charging source, and as an inverter when the grid goes down. If your PV can keep your batteries charged and supply your loads (through your CC and then inverted by your FX) you will effectively be operating "off grid" with battery backup even though you're still grid connected.

BTW, your VFX2812 is only rated for 56A AC peak maximum output so all those subpanel loads may exceed its feed-through capability.
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby breamer999 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:11 am

Thank you for the detailed reply Mike, you nailed it. As far as the breakers, they are 60 amps. I managed to get hold of the guy who originally wired this and he pretty well explained it exactly as you outlined. He was kind enough to do the final wiring and I'm active as of yesterday. My other question is I have the FlexNet DC, along with two Blue Sky MPPT's (50 amps each) and a Flexmax 80. I hooked up the Flexmax to the HUB, but the I thought the summary screen on the MATE2 would show combined current, but does not. Many more questions as I explore this. I'm about a 4 outta 10 on understanding the details. I was thinking of the MATE3, but have read so many issues with it, I am reluctant
breamer999
Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:52 pm
My RE system: Outback VFX2812, Surrette S-530 (x4) + 1.5kw of panels

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby Mike Curran on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Hey Breamer - Do you have a shunt installed through which all the current from your 3 charge controllers passes? If so, and the shunt's sensor wiring (measures voltage drop across the shunt) is properly connected to the FNDC, your Mate2 should display the combined current. I checked my FNDC manual and it says it's designed to work with a Mate2.

If you have a shunt installed and it's not working, it's possible your Mate2 may need a firmware upgrade, which means shipping it back to OB and a ~$90 fee :sad:. Still, much cheaper than a new Mate3, but offhand I don't know for sure if that's the solution or not.

Maybe you could post another pic showing your DC wiring cabinet (where the shunt should be) if what I'm saying isn't making sense...

- Mike
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby breamer999 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:26 am

Yes Mike there is a shunt I believe
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breamer999
Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:52 pm
My RE system: Outback VFX2812, Surrette S-530 (x4) + 1.5kw of panels

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby Mike Curran on Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:53 am

Yes, it's located below and to the left of your Flexmax. But it looks like the other 2 charge controllers aren't connected to it.
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby breamer999 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:55 am

Ok, so a shunt required for each charge controller I assume
breamer999
Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:52 pm
My RE system: Outback VFX2812, Surrette S-530 (x4) + 1.5kw of panels

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby Mike Curran on Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:18 am

That would work but not necessary, (and besides your FNDC only has provisions for 3 shunts, looks like you've got your inverter on a shunt too so not enough inputs).

What you should do is connect the battery negatives on your other two charge controllers to your existing shunt at the same point (it looks like) the Flexmax is connected, the single black wire coming from the FM to your shunt. Then your Mate2 should show the combined current from all 3 CC's through that shunt.

Make sense?

PS with all that current from 3 CC's you'd better make sure the conductor on the bottom of your shunt, going to your battery(?), is sized adequately. BTW, if you only have 1500 watts of PV, why 3 charge controllers?
Mike Curran
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio
My RE system: Outback: 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one MX60, 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80, 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC, 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah, Hub10.3, Mate3, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: In a bit of a bind, pic included

Postby breamer999 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:57 am

Mike I have about 2400 watts of PV and yes that makes sense, I will forward that info to my install fella

thanks, more questions in future, but so far everything is performing well
breamer999
Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:52 pm
My RE system: Outback VFX2812, Surrette S-530 (x4) + 1.5kw of panels


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