Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

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Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:41 pm

Getting ready to pick up a 2700RE system:

http://outbackpower.com/outback-product ... ory_id=442

Wondering if anybody hereabouts has had any experience good or bad with them? I find few references to them in the forum posts so possibly they mostly go to commercial places?



Steven in Colorado
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My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby FlyingDiscHawaii on Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:12 pm

I don't have any experience with them.

I met a guy what says he has them and that he is so glad he spent all that money as now he hardly has
to concern himself with the PV system like he used to.
He seems to use them a lot and has an indoor plant growing operation that uses a lot of power all the time,
24 hours a day sometimes.

So, if I had the cash I would check them out.
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:36 am

FlyingDiscHawaii wrote:I don't have any experience with them.

I met a guy what says he has them and that he is so glad he spent all that money as now he hardly has
to concern himself with the PV system like he used to.
He seems to use them a lot and has an indoor plant growing operation that uses a lot of power all the time,
24 hours a day sometimes.

So, if I had the cash I would check them out.


That's my general reason for looking at them myself.

In the 4.5 years I've been here in my off-grid house I've been wrestling with bad battery issues for 4 of them. The batteries we had in there we just the wrong kind for an off-grid system and I ended up having to buy a bunch of Interstate L-16s to get me through the winter. I've looked at a couple of other solutions (from Crown batteries for example) but they cost even more.

By my estimates these puppies should be gross overkill, which is what I'm looking for -- not having to deal with this nonsense again. Until I get a Mr. Fusion I think I'm with your acquaintance.

Thank you!


Steve
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My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Thu May 26, 2016 2:21 pm

First update of many:

Okay, my batteries are in hand and on the hill just above the shed where they'll be deployed. They're safely tucked away under tarps and such for now; I hope to install them in about two weeks time.

Photo attached of these monsters.



Steve
Attachments
16153.jpg
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
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My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:19 pm

An update!

We got the batteries moved down and they're in the shed and on the racking now. This is heavy duty racking, very strong -- I don't have any doubts about it holding the batteries. The batteries themselves are 358 pounds each, so all told the 24 of them weigh in at 8592 pounds. I suspect with the racking that's about 9000 pounds in total.

It took us 10 hours to get them down the hill, into the shed and onto the racking. I'm covered with bruises, but they're there.

Next weekend we voltage test each battery and (hopefully) wire it all up!


Steven in Colorado
Attachments
13439012_10206797893445910_4888668547183778631_n.jpg
The batteries on their rack. It BARELY (and I mean BARELY) fit into the shed.
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:30 pm

Another Update!


The system is connected and running! I have been up to the shed twice and keep forgetting to take my camera, but tomorrow I'll get some shots and post them.

I'm a bit confused over the Absorb/Float settings though. I frankly don't find the manual very helpful here...anybody had any experience with this? I'll figure it out eventually but there's not as much info as there is with "normal" batteries (which just amazes me).


Steven in Colorado
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby sodamo on Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:12 am

I'm interested in following your experience. I know new batteries are in my future.
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby SandyP on Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:40 am

Ferretman wrote:I'm a bit confused over the Absorb/Float settings though. I frankly don't find the manual very helpful here...anybody had any experience with this?


No experience, but did have a look at the manual and yes there is no reference to absorb charge settings. From the manual you get the impression these are "standby" type batteries that are usually in Float and on the occasion that they are used/discharged that you charge them through an equalisation charge. Clear as mud...??
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:35 am

SandyP wrote:
Ferretman wrote:I'm a bit confused over the Absorb/Float settings though. I frankly don't find the manual very helpful here...anybody had any experience with this?


No experience, but did have a look at the manual and yes there is no reference to absorb charge settings. From the manual you get the impression these are "standby" type batteries that are usually in Float and on the occasion that they are used/discharged that you charge them through an equalisation charge. Clear as mud...??


I did find it, though it's not as helpful in the manual as it is on the spec sheet (of all things). (<rant on>And as it typical and indicative of the not-ready-for-primetime nature of this industry it's not provided in a simple "set it to this, that and this"--I've got to calculate it and they hedge based on temperature. Systems like this will never become mainstream until that nonsense is simplified so my Mom can do it.</rant off>)

Looks like I've got the Float charge set just about right, gotta tweak the Equalize level a bit (they're not supposed to ever need equalization unless this and that and the other, which should be rare). Shouldn't be too hard I think...



Steven in Colorado
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My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:26 pm

Okay, I've had a couple more days with the system and let me just say up front, I'm extremely pleased. However, I thought I should check with folks here regarding the Bulk/Absorb/Float settings. What I've got right now feels a bit "low" to me, but maybe that's just me.

Based on the chart on page 2 of the "manual" (attached) I set up parameters as follows (adjusted for a 48V/24 battery system):


    - Absorb: 54.8
    - Float: 52.8
    - Equalize (turned off but I set the value just to be complete): 62.0

Again while I'm very pleased with the performance these numbers feel a bit "low" to me. Maybe not; maybe it's just me.

Anybody have some thoughts here?



Steven in Colorado
Attachments
manual page two.jpg
Page Two of the Manual (with values)
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby SandyP on Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:40 pm

Ferretman wrote:Based on the chart on page 2 of the "manual" (attached) I set up parameters as follows (adjusted for a 48V/24 battery system):

    - Absorb: 54.8
    - Float: 52.8
    - Equalize (turned off but I set the value just to be complete): 62.0

Again while I'm very pleased with the performance these numbers feel a bit "low" to me. Maybe not; maybe it's just me.

Anybody have some thoughts here?
Steven in Colorado


Well your PowerSafe DDm batteries are listed as AGM type VRLA whilst most of the VRLA information on the EnerSys web site seems to relate to GEL type batteries - this makes it difficult to provide definite answers.
As far as I know, VRLA GEL batteries are deemed more sensitive to charging voltages than AGM or Flooded LA batteries so using the recommended GEL charging settings for your batteries may be an option?
If so, then your charging voltage parameters shown in your post are a bit low and could be raised to Abs = 56.8V and Float to 54.4V.

I suggest you call either Outback or EnerSys to get a definite answer as to what your charging voltages should be.
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:20 am

There are indeed AGM -- my apologies, I thought I'd said that elsewhere but it certainly bore repeating.

The numbers you cite seem more in line with what I'd expect, I concur. Thank you!

Any Outback folks hereabouts who can weigh in on this?


Steven in Colorado
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby klundquist on Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:00 am

I recommend the following settings:

Inverter Absorb: 55.6V 4 hrs
Charge Controller Absorb: 55.8 4 hrs

Float: 54V

EQ: 56 24 hrs I use EQ to run the freshening charge cycle as necessary.

FNDC:
Battery Ah: 2350
Charged Voltage: 55
Charged Time: 2 min
Return Amps: 47
Charge Factor: 94%

If the FNDC is not showing charge parameters met at least once a week I suggest you increase the absorb time. If the battery bank is >77°F do not exceed 56.4Vdc.

Make sure you have the outback temp sensor stuck to the front of one of the battery cells in the middle area of your bank.

-Kurt
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:31 am

klundquist wrote:I recommend the following settings:

Inverter Absorb: 55.6V 4 hrs
Charge Controller Absorb: 55.8 4 hrs

Float: 54V

EQ: 56 24 hrs I use EQ to run the freshening charge cycle as necessary.

FNDC:
Battery Ah: 2350
Charged Voltage: 55
Charged Time: 2 min
Return Amps: 47
Charge Factor: 94%

If the FNDC is not showing charge parameters met at least once a week I suggest you increase the absorb time. If the battery bank is >77°F do not exceed 56.4Vdc.

Make sure you have the outback temp sensor stuck to the front of one of the battery cells in the middle area of your bank.

-Kurt



Thanks Kurt! I'll input those tonight when I get home.....they are definitely inline with my hunch. The numbers I'd gotten just seemed too low.

The RTS is attached to the 3rd battery of 6, second row up of four. I debated it going there vs. the third row up (right above it), but one could make arguments both ways. (I'd really like to see a system with an RTS on each individual battery but that's not reasonable I'm afraid.)

Thank you sir! Especially for the FNDC settings....I hadn't activated it yet, wanted to get these parameters nailed down first rather than wrestle with two things.



Steven in Colorado
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:03 pm

Having worked with these batteries a bit since they were installed (late May/early June, 2016) and now working through the first winter cycle I've found a bit more information and made a couple of tweaks.

It was my experience that once winter set in that the system basically hit 52.4 V once the sunlight faded and over the course of the night hit 50.8 V, sometimes 50.4 V. I thought this seemed about normal until we had a HEAVY cloudy day one winter day, with very little extra sunlight and so entered the evening basically at 50.0V. I was quite surprised that the morning, about 9 hours later, showed only 49.6V....rather less energy usage than I expected.

Poking around online I found a couple of posts that seemed to indicate that AGM Absorb values for higher amperage batteries (like mine) should be increased according to info from various batteries manufacturers:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4598

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/of ... rb-time-be

The posts suggest that the AGM Absorb should be set a bit higher and also to increase the length of Absorb time. (I suspect that they'll never hit the Float timer in the winter months as well.) So it seems to me that perhaps I should increase the Absorb voltages slightly and the length of time somewhat as well.

I know that battery manufacturers revise these things from time to time, but checking on the Outback site I could find no white papers that seemed to be about this.

Thoughts?


Steven in Colorado
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.

Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby blackswan555 on Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:44 am

I only know what I have read about AGMs/sealed ( apart from once accidentally trying to charge a small 6v one on 12v,,,, ahh thats what off gassing sound like lol) But longer absorb does seem the norm, Obviously you cannot SG them but it may be worth watching end amps as another guide to their charging state, Either use a clamp meter or if you have reasonable data from shunts etc that will do, As with SGs, charge at your normal voltage, Watch the return amps & wait for it to flatline/not change for about an hour, Thats as charged as you get at that voltage, The number you get from that will also be your end amps for the FNDC, But beware it will change with temp, loads and as your batteries age, So re calibrate "as needed"

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby klundquist on Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:19 am

You can play around with the set points but make sure to never exceed 2.35 volts per cell (56.4Vdc) if the batteries are 77°F or warmer. I've been told that AGM batteries like to finish their charge in the Float stage so ideally you are able to spend some time in Float. As Tim said if you have a current clamp or shunt monitor (FN-DC) you can get more info on how long you need to Absorb. If the charge current drops below 50A while battery voltage is maintained >55.6V then you can finish Absorb and go to Float. You may find that your 4 hour Absorb time is too long.

-Kurt
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Re: Anybody Had Any Experience with the Outback 2700RE?

Postby Ferretman on Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:33 pm

Right now it's at 2.45V/battery and I'm planning on stepping that down. There's no danger at all of a temperature issue today (it's winter here), but those values bugged me as well when I stepped it up the other day.

Right now I have the Absorb set for 5 hours, which matches the other posts regarding newer Absorb times for AGM guidance from some battery manufacturers. The time spent seems to be making a difference with the charging seeming to get "deeper" than it was at the old settings. I'd probably revisit it once I get more/better sunlight as I agree, I'd like to see them hit Float--I just am becoming unconvinced they are in sunlight long enough to accomplish that properly.

Thank you!


Steven in Colorado
Ferretman
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Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm
Location: Colorado Springs
My RE system: Outback FlexPower Two system with MATE2:
- X240 Transformer
- 2 Flexmate 80 charge controllers with Outback temperature compensation sensor
- 3 Outback VFX3648 inverters
- FlexnetDC charging controller

24 Outback 2700RE batteries and racking (2288 amp hour capacity total)

36 230W Conergy solar panels (ground mount)

Generac 15kw Propane Generator for backup

Battery/power shed is 9'x11', constructed of ICFs with a glycol radiant heat system embedded in the floor to help with winter temperature control. Big block window and custom 8" thick doors to provide light and insulated ingress/egress.

Davis Vantage 2 solar-powered & wireless weather station. Features:
- Fan-aspirated temperature and humidity gauges;
- Barometric pressure gauge;
- Rainfall collector;
- Anemometer (wind gauge) together with a wind direction indicator.


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