When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Discussion about OutBack Inverters in Off Grid Applications

Moderators: OutBack Moderator Team, OutBack

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby larrywa on Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:43 pm

My batteries only sit on standby so they don't discharge much each night from the electronics sitting on standby.

You should be able to leave your time set long and add a Return Amps current setting instead of 0 amps. The Return Amps setting, once met will short-cut your Absorb timer if it can. The timer is in case of poor charging, it can just give up. Once the FNDC unit senses the "charged" voltage for the time set, and then the current drops back to the Return Amps setting, your Mate3 should turn off the Absorb mode in your CC unit, causing it to go into Float mode, and also enable the inverter to go into grid-tie mode.

Once your CC unit sees the grid-tie mode is enabled it will attempt to charge up to the Absorb voltage to get a good voltage overlap with your inverter grid-tie Sell Voltage setting. The inverters now pull down your battery voltage back down to the setting of the grid-tie Sell voltage setting set for the inverters. In effect the inverters Sell voltage controls what your battery float will be.

Bulk/ Absorb charging should be done each time your batteries are discharged or off charge for some time. For most systems this is every morning when the sun is just rising and doesn't produce much anyway. Even though my timer is set for two hours in good sun it switches over to Selling in about 40 minutes. The intent is to get your battery SOC back to 100% quickly and then switch to Float in order to maintain the battery losses without boiling the battery cells while your inverter Sells your PV energy.
larrywa
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:25 am
My RE system: FlexPower Two
2 x GVFX3648s, 2 x FM80s, FNDC w/3 shunts, Mate3 v3.015.001, Hub 10.3
PV:1000W east@45, 600W west@45, 2400W south@19 deg.
Battery:48v @ 130Ahr Crown batteries, deep cycle <$380 for 6.25kWh

ISY994i HA, Insteon, X10, Philips Hue, MiLight bulbs & RGBW strips
WebControl 8 as weather station stuffing ISY vars via REST

Raspberry Pi B+

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby blackswan555 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:09 am

I was only talking today about getting another vfx3048e...i agree, i think its needed...but think a wind turbine is my next purchase.


I am not a fan ( no pun intended) of wind, I have never installed one and would refuse if asked, Unless you have good laminar wind flow they are not a good idea, And even then they will break down or need getting to at the top of a big pole, Look at the commercial ( BIG) ones, Always one or two in the field not spinning, Why ? cause they do not want the "free" power ? Err Not :-)
Have a look over on Wind Sun, http://forum.solar-electric.com/forum/s ... generation For more info, ( see if you can find a "happy customer" they are a rare breed on a wind farm, lol )

Another VFX would take approx 1/4 off you fuel & gen run time, 2 maybe 1/3

This weekend i have added 3x 260w solar panels to my array :-) ...so i'm now at 2.58kw...2 more and my fm60 is maxed out i believe?

Yes that's about it, What is the max input you have ever seen ? with UK weather you could possibly go further ?


Just to recap on last week... Thursday i had 3 hours absorb at 57.4v via the gen...not sure what fm60 absorb was.

on friday I had 3 hours absorb up at 58.4 via the gen and 2.5 hours of absorb at 57.4 on fm60 (i have now changed fm60 to absorb for 3 hours at 58.4).
You need to be reading your SG's :-)

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
blackswan555
OutBack Emperor
 
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:50 am
Location: Ibiza Spain,
My RE system: Other peoples, VFX "E" versions, FLA`s, Generators.

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby blackswan555 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:17 am

Larry, Not sure if you posted that in the right place ? this discussion is about an off grid system,

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
blackswan555
OutBack Emperor
 
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:50 am
Location: Ibiza Spain,
My RE system: Other peoples, VFX "E" versions, FLA`s, Generators.

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby ricardodba on Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:30 am

The reason im thinking of a turbine is having best of both worlds...especially in winter...when its cloudy and dull and solar production is next to nothing.

Where i i live is recommended for wind turbines as per some webiste i looked on...i also see what you mean about getting another inverter...it will charge batteries quicker thus reducing gen run time...but i really dont want gen running at all if i can help it.

The most solar i have seen produced in 1 day (remembering it was when i had 1.8kw array) was 14 khw...however, i have never seen the fm60 putting more than 40amps in i dont think...so yeah maybe add some more panels!...i have roof space for another 3x 260w pannels...what happens if say solar creating more than fm60 can handle (apart from getting an fm80)?
ricardodba
Member
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:01 pm
My RE system: vfx3048, fm60, 48v 1000a battery bank, 2.58kw solar array

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby blackswan555 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:06 am

The reason im thinking of a turbine is having best of both worlds...especially in winter...when its cloudy and dull and solar production is next to nothing.

I would suggest a LOT of research before you invest, good site choice is paramount, "it's windy here" is not a good wind gen site, 50 ft above nearest anything in straight constant wind flow is :-) Then to see what it "says on the plate" mmmm, yea, I do not see many bragging about their turbines after a few months lol, (And they are noisy)

i have never seen the fm60 putting more than 40amps in i dont think...so yeah maybe add some more panels!...i have roof space for another 3x 260w pannels...what happens if say solar creating more than fm60 can handle (apart from getting an fm80)


The FM's STC max is 3200w, but you could add more by the sound of it, The FM can handle more on input, it will not output more than 60a (ish), It is not unheard of to have "too many" panels due to poor light conditions, ( Max input voltage is 145v)

Have I mentioned SG's lately ? :-)

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
blackswan555
OutBack Emperor
 
Posts: 2328
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:50 am
Location: Ibiza Spain,
My RE system: Other peoples, VFX "E" versions, FLA`s, Generators.

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby larrywa on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:09 am

blackswan555 wrote:Larry, Not sure if you posted that in the right place ? this discussion is about an off grid system,

Tim

My apologies! I missed the model of his inverter. My comments were for a grid-tie system.
larrywa
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:25 am
My RE system: FlexPower Two
2 x GVFX3648s, 2 x FM80s, FNDC w/3 shunts, Mate3 v3.015.001, Hub 10.3
PV:1000W east@45, 600W west@45, 2400W south@19 deg.
Battery:48v @ 130Ahr Crown batteries, deep cycle <$380 for 6.25kWh

ISY994i HA, Insteon, X10, Philips Hue, MiLight bulbs & RGBW strips
WebControl 8 as weather station stuffing ISY vars via REST

Raspberry Pi B+

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby larrywa on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:38 am

blackswan555 wrote:
The reason im thinking of a turbine is having best of both worlds...especially in winter...when its cloudy and dull and solar production is next to nothing.

I would suggest a LOT of research before you invest, good site choice is paramount, "it's windy here" is not a good wind gen site, 50 ft above nearest anything in straight constant wind flow is :-) Then to see what it "says on the plate" mmmm, yea, I do not see many bragging about their turbines after a few months lol, (And they are noisy)

i have never seen the fm60 putting more than 40amps in i dont think...so yeah maybe add some more panels!...i have roof space for another 3x 260w pannels...what happens if say solar creating more than fm60 can handle (apart from getting an fm80)


The FM's STC max is 3200w, but you could add more by the sound of it, The FM can handle more on input, it will not output more than 60a (ish), It is not unheard of to have "too many" panels due to poor light conditions, ( Max input voltage is 145v)

Have I mentioned SG's lately ? :-)

Tim

I have to totally agree with Tim here. I owned a 1k unit for about 6 years.
The rule of thumb is to mount the turbine 30 feet (10m) higher than any object within 200m to get constant winds.
Since the output of a wind turbine is proportional to the cube of the wind speed here is what to expect:
at 10 km winds you get nothing, the voltage output isn't high enough to overcome the battery voltage
at 20 km winds you get 20% output (a guess)
at 30 km winds you get 100% output
at 40 km winds you get 400% output and it's a problem needing braking and dump loads

If you mount it too low the wind have turbulence in them and will likely destroy the unit.
I did this and several time per year we get 110 km wind gusts. Lots of wind here.
After rebuilding my 3m diameter blade turbine I put it back up in the air. No energy production for about two weeks. One night we had our usual windy storm and I heard a bang in the middle of the night. The next morning I arise to see my three blades broken off. One blade skipped across my yard leaving divets in the grass and stopped about 50m away in the ditch. One blade bounced off my workshop building and landed on my neighbours grass about 30m away the other direction. The third blade I have never found. Several days later a friend was walking around my property and pointed out a 1m diameter hole in my metal roof. I spent two days tearing metal shingles off to replace the 15mm plywood sheeting and then replaced all the metal shingles that were damaged. Then cleaned out the attic and found a few small pieces of fibreglass blade inside.

I sold the remainder of the turbine after 6 years of fighting with this thing. It boiled a set of batteries dry on me while I was in another city during my building phase of the house where the turbine was. The high winds burned out the controller that came with the turbine and it ran wild killing a $1k set of batteries. Garbage.

Once I put the voltmeter on the output and removed all the load. With very light winds this 48v turbine accelerated until my voltmeter went over 250vac. I didn't have any rubber gloves on and panicked. Finally I managed to push two of the three phases together and bring the speed down again. If I hadn't it would have continued to accelerate more. These things can be dangerous.

Get a small unit if at all. Maybe 1m = 200-400w. It will put out charge a few times per year. Don't listen to the sales hype for power output. There are scales of the maximum power per diameter blades. Most people have removed their small turbines and most of the hype has gone away in the last few years. Very high maintenance and hard to maintain when installed properly up 30m. Expect the tower to cost 3-5 times the amount of the turbine.

Not recommended.
larrywa
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:25 am
My RE system: FlexPower Two
2 x GVFX3648s, 2 x FM80s, FNDC w/3 shunts, Mate3 v3.015.001, Hub 10.3
PV:1000W east@45, 600W west@45, 2400W south@19 deg.
Battery:48v @ 130Ahr Crown batteries, deep cycle <$380 for 6.25kWh

ISY994i HA, Insteon, X10, Philips Hue, MiLight bulbs & RGBW strips
WebControl 8 as weather station stuffing ISY vars via REST

Raspberry Pi B+

Re: When to Equalise and How long absorb time?

Postby arpitkakkar1 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:12 am

laminar absorb air which is not require on the work place and they are harm the research samples.so laminar air flow horizontal remove all toxic and acidic air from lab and flow fresh air.
arpitkakkar1
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:01 am
My RE system: i don't have it.

Previous

Return to Off Grid Applications

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 2 guests