FlexMax 100 ground fault error

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zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:29 pm

Going through major upgrades, and having growing pains. So about a month ago I Installed 2 FM 100s in place of the FM 80s I had because I was also upping the PV to 6 KW from 3.5 KW. All was well on the charging side for a while, but now one of the two keeps throwing a ground fault error, and shutting down. Then when the Mate3 polls again, it restarts. Both controllers have the same settings in the Mate3. I have checked all physical wiring. BTW I also this week installed 6 BAttle Borns in place of my 24 volt Traction battery. But I was having this issue before. I am mystified.

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by fcwlp » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:24 pm

A couple of things to verify/look at:
1) When you pulled the FM80s to replace with FM100s, did you also remove the old GFDI breakers?
2) Did you remove the fuse from one of the FM100s? See p.15 of FM100 manual.
3) Debug procedure is available at http://outbackpower.force.com/articles/ ... earch&pn=1

I assume that outbackpower.force.com is an Outback site as there is some userful info there that really should be in the app notes section. I used the debug procedure on one system. It gives a simple and logical way to isolate issues.

zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:47 am

Yes I had removed the GFDI, and no I did not pull a fuse. You have now proved two things, YOU can read, and I cannot. =D> I have now pulled one of the fuses and we will see if that resolves the issue. Thanks so much.

fcwlp
Forum Czar
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:40 am
My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by fcwlp » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:42 pm

Your welcome. :smile: I have a good memory for somethings, but still had to look in the manual to find the page.

zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:27 am

Well I have been going crazy with this FM 100s errors. I could get it into a 2 amp absorb by removing the negative bond jumper, but that's useless. I pulled the dozen panels it handles, checked all individually, remade the grounds, tested the connections everywhere. then I found this test on this forum.
PV Voltage goes to zero.pdf
(490.79 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
Very helpful. And this 2 month old FM 100 shows 3.4 volts. Per the test the CC is bad.

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:33 am

Hey Zozomike, those instructions from Greg are for an FM60 or FM80, not FM100.

Your last post sounds like you removed one of the ground bond jumpers. That is incorrect. Both jumpers must remain installed for negatively-grounded systems like yours.

Instead, one of the ground fuses should be removed, and the other left in place.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:39 am

Yes Ian, Yes one of the fuses in the pair is removed. Yes I experimented with also removing the jumper, which per the manual is done to disable the internal GFDI. The unit did charge, but only at 2 -3 ampa while its partner on an identical array was charging at 12>. After I posted the above about the test, I ran it on the working FM100, and realized it was not a valid test, and intended to so post this morning. Can you point me to a test that is valid for the FM 100? Isolating strings ( with combiner breakers) makes no difference as the FM100 remains silent. Physical examination of all connections and wiring show no issues, after all the array and FM100 worked wonderfully for the first month after installation. Then NOT.

zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:41 am

Yes Ian, Yes one of the fuses in the pair is removed. Yes I experimented with also removing the jumper, which per the manual is done to disable the internal GFDI. The unit did charge, but only at 2 -3 ampa while its partner on an identical array was charging at 12>. After I posted the above about the test, I ran it on the working FM100, and realized it was not a valid test, and intended to so post this morning. Can you point me to a test that is valid for the FM 100? Isolating strings ( with combiner breakers) makes no difference as the FM100 remains silent. Physical examination of all connections and wiring show no issues, after all the array and FM100 worked wonderfully for the first month after installation. Then NOT.

User avatar
IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by IanMcCluskey » Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:58 am

Hi Mike, good update. That behavior sounds like a quirk in the settings. OPTICS will help us find one if it exists. I can't think of any actual failure mode that would cause the behavior you describe.

How close are you to setting up OPTICS? It makes it way easier to look for discrepancies in the settings than on the MATE3S.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:51 am

Thanks Ian. I sort of put Optics RE on hold, as we have no dedicated Internet up here. Just phone data. I will try to work that out again. As to settings, both the FM 100s have the same settings in the Mate3s. and exactly the same arrays. One works fine....

User avatar
IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by IanMcCluskey » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:50 am

And the concern is that the system should be charging faster if the other FM100 were charging at full output? Which port is each one on?

I would usually ask about making sure the settings match the battery manufacturers requirements, but I am unfamiliar with the Battleborn batteries. A line diagram of the system may help.

Also, have you considered if any system or inverter settings might be limiting the charge current to the batteries?
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

zozomike
Forum Whiz
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:53 pm
My RE system: Off-grid, all solar, passive and active ( winter wood heat supplements) solar DHW, no backup. Southern mountains New Mexico.

Array 1 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Array 2 3000w, 12 Sunpower 250s FM 100

Well array 600w, 6 Kyocera 130 w with Grundfos sqflex11 and cu200 to elevated storage, ( 2- 330 g tanks,) no battery storage at well

Six Battle Born 50 AH 24 V Lithium

Outback VFXR 3524A Flex Power 2, prewired with Flexnet DC SOC monitor and Mate3.

Re: FlexMax 100 ground fault error

Post by zozomike » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:04 am

Update, My solar installation electrician finally determined the FM 100 to be faulty, after we spent way more than the cost of the FM 100 trying to find the issue on our side. He prepared a report on the 16th and began calling support, on the 20th he was able to request an RMA but still by the 26th no RMA. Still running on half a system. ](*,)

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