FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

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lonewolf
Forum Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 pm
My RE system: Off grid - 12 at ESA 205fa3 panels (fixed roof mount at 45 tilt, 215 degree (SSW)), 2@ FlexMax 80, 12V battery bank (24 ea T-105 for 1500 AH @ 50% DoD) , 2@ Prosine 1800 & Xantrex 4000W true sine inverters, 2 ea. Air-X 500W (ha ha) wind turDines (sic), Honda Eu-series inverter generators, Xantrex TrueCharge+40

FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by lonewolf » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:44 am

Hello again

I've been off-grid for 25 years and came to trust Outback Power charge controllers and support.
On 9/11/2018 my entire home/contents ('life') was lost in a human caused wildfire.  
BTW, there is no such 'thing' as insurance for off-grid residences (at least in Montana).
Also I am a disabled US service veteran.

This past summer I worked (labored) to try to regain some of what I'd lost.  
In that (partial) arrangement I was 'given' a lightly used FXR 2812A Inverter/Charger in exchange for 100+ hours of work.

Three days ago I hooked it up to a brand new 940 AH rated battery bank (all cells tested and fully charged).  
First issue was the agonizing/prolonged 'discovery' of the insane "jumper" demon (e.g.<  diagnose, ID, locate, remove, reinstall INSANITY - per Table 6 on Page 47). 
What is 'wrong' with a 'simple' on/off switch ?? (NTM labeling same) ???  But, I solved this challenge after 3+ hours of cursing, reading reams of mind-numbing gobbly-goop and hair-pulling.

The "manual" indicates that the low voltage cut-off is supposedly set for 11.4 VDC,   
Now, however, It just shuts itself off whenever the battery voltage under minimal load (less than 50W) reaches 11.92 VDC after a minute or less.  
The no load voltage (inverter DC open, aka off) at this point is 12.23 VDC.

For example, I charged the battery bank for a full 12 hours from a generator yesterday (at 13.54V, 45A).  By 10 PM the no load battery voltage was 13.3 V (charger off).  
When the inverter was connected (on) the voltage dropped to 12.9 VDC within a few minutes (and falling slowly) with much less than a 100 W draw.  
Again, the inverter shut itself down at 11.92 VDC under 'load' (at 6 AM).  
A FULLY charged 1000 AH battery bank and an overnight load of much less than 50W and this unit just shuts itself off in 8 hours (or less)!  
The ONLY load overnight was a wifi router and VoIP phone (computers were off).  The CyberPower UPS indicates that this load is a 'whopping' 23W.

Now I've had experience with quite a few inverters (than actually worked).  No infinitely programable nonsense. No does everything possible except fly itself to the moon and back.  
Just DC in and AC out.  That's what I need/want.  Plain-old DC/AC Inverter that stays on ... aka is RELIABLE ... aka, that actually works.  

SO ... would anyone have a clue as to WTF is wrong with this 'picture'?  How can I change the low voltage cut-off point to the stated 11.4 VDC?  

As things stand currently, this FXR 2812 is totally unusable garbage and it appears (unless this can be corrected without spending MORE money to get it operational) that I'll need to purchase an actual inverter that actually works even though I can't possibly afford one.

Very, very, VERY unhappy 'camper'.

raysun
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Posts: 2803
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by raysun » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:23 am

Aloha Brother,

I feel your pain, literally, but not for the same reasons. I live off-grid in the wilds of Hawaii Island and face similar issues.

You think fire insurance in Montana is a joke? Try living off-grid on an active volcano. We pay $1400 a year for insurance that I pray I never have to find out WTF it covers. ROFLMAO, 'cause otherwise I'd be crying all the time.

Just so you know, OB gear is about as bulletproof as it gets. Complicated AF for the rookie? Yep. Admittedly it can seem like driving an M1A1 to the mailbox, but once once dialed in, solid as a rock. Lots of us on this forum use this gear like our lives depend on it and sleep just fine at night. You can too. We are all in this together here, and people in the field have lots of practical experience working with this gear.

As you've found, the FXR inverters have way more features than are needed for hunkering down under a blue tarp, running a couple of light bulbs. ;) They can be made to work fine for a simple setup though.

Sure, there's lots of cheap Chi-com inverters out there that are pretty much 'plug and pray'. They work out of the box, until they don't. What they definitely don't do is provide a built-in charger, allow a (decent) generator to be connected, and provide the rugged 'guts' that OB puts into their gear.

Reading through the inverter and battery situation described, there's a couple of things, to start.

#1. The battery performance doesn't sound right. The cause for that is unknown from the current info., but a fully charged, lightly loaded battery shouldn't drop voltage so readily.

What is the brand of the battery? I assume 12V @940AH, the battery is made up from a set of interconnected monoblocks (individual, smaller batteries). How is the battery wired?

Can you post some pix of the battery and the connecting wiring?

In fact, can you update your profile with the manifest of gear you're using?

#2. What manual are you using to configure the FXR? The one I downloaded seems to be different. So we can all be literally on the same page, it would be good to refer to the same docs.

Hang in there, this will get squared away.

What was your MOS?

lonewolf
Forum Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 pm
My RE system: Off grid - 12 at ESA 205fa3 panels (fixed roof mount at 45 tilt, 215 degree (SSW)), 2@ FlexMax 80, 12V battery bank (24 ea T-105 for 1500 AH @ 50% DoD) , 2@ Prosine 1800 & Xantrex 4000W true sine inverters, 2 ea. Air-X 500W (ha ha) wind turDines (sic), Honda Eu-series inverter generators, Xantrex TrueCharge+40

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by lonewolf » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am

Yeah, I know OB's rep very well ... until now

Battery 'bank' is 8 cases @ 6V nom, 235 AH ea. Interstate GC2's connected as 4 parallel strings of 2 ea. for 12V nom, 940 AH. All interconnects are 4/0 welding cable (stranded copper) with tinned ring lugs and each tested at zero ohms.

I can't "dial" this thing in; i.e., set the low voltage cut off point (unless someone here knows some voodoo magic) because it has ALL possible 'bells and whistles' except for the ones that are actually useful (needed) ... starting with F'n basic on/off switch for the output NTM ability change the cut-off points (it is not factory spec).

This is absolute complete NONSENSE. I could buy 10 Chinesium crap-shoot inverters for the price of this junk. I do not need, can't use the so-called built-in charger in this (even IF I could figure out how to connect/use it) since my generator can't handle that HIGH current draw it requires).

I couldn't possibly be more upset about the so-called "features" (total absence of same) NTM the crap performance of this junk. Yeah, I have an "attitude". BECAUSE my LIFE literally depends on it!

ANYONE - How can I reset the low-voltage cut-off point back to the alleged factory spec of 11.4 VDC ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What is "MOS" ?

lonewolf
Forum Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 pm
My RE system: Off grid - 12 at ESA 205fa3 panels (fixed roof mount at 45 tilt, 215 degree (SSW)), 2@ FlexMax 80, 12V battery bank (24 ea T-105 for 1500 AH @ 50% DoD) , 2@ Prosine 1800 & Xantrex 4000W true sine inverters, 2 ea. Air-X 500W (ha ha) wind turDines (sic), Honda Eu-series inverter generators, Xantrex TrueCharge+40

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by lonewolf » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:44 am

PS: The only manuals I have access to are the ones found on the Outback Power website.

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2803
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by raysun » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:48 pm

OK, don't shoot, just tryin' to be helpful.

TBH, OB gear keeps pretty good resale value. Maybe sell it and get a simpler inverter?

The Xantrex stuff in your profile worked for you, right?

I could be wrong, but setting most all the parameters on the inverter requires a Mate3 system controller (or other control device like the AXS Port). The settings are kept in the inverter's memory, so configuring could be a one-time thing with a borrowed Mate3, if you know someone who has one.

The inverter was 'lightly used'? Does that mean someone had it in a system? How did they program it?

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2803
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by raysun » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:57 pm

lonewolf wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:44 am
PS: The only manuals I have access to are the ones found on the Outback Power website.
This manual?
Screenshot_20191031-105547_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
The inverter is the VFXR2812A, yes?

lonewolf
Forum Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 pm
My RE system: Off grid - 12 at ESA 205fa3 panels (fixed roof mount at 45 tilt, 215 degree (SSW)), 2@ FlexMax 80, 12V battery bank (24 ea T-105 for 1500 AH @ 50% DoD) , 2@ Prosine 1800 & Xantrex 4000W true sine inverters, 2 ea. Air-X 500W (ha ha) wind turDines (sic), Honda Eu-series inverter generators, Xantrex TrueCharge+40

Re: FXR 2 812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by lonewolf » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:07 pm

Yes VFXR 2812A

TMK, it was in another system for less than a year, which was upgraded to 48V.

So, you're saying (without actually stating so) that this unit can NOT be reset to factory spec (i.e., LVCO = 11.4V) without buying a $500 Mate3 et al !?! if so, that's not only crazy and a rip-off but criminally incompetent/irresponsible, IMO.

I have several dozen off-grid neighbors but none have a Mate (apparently for good reason)

For more than 2 decades now, I have had nothing but the best things to say about Outback Power - UNTIL NOW.

Yes, my former Xantrex Inverters were GREAT. 100% reliable and worth every cent. ZERO complications and no BS, No 100's of pages of techno garble. No hidden 'secret' mystery switches. No $500 programing voodoo. Just DC in and true sine 120 VAC out. All the time. Forever.

If a Mate3 is actually required to set the factory specs on this junk, I'm going back to Xantrex and when I'm eventually able to replace my PV system, y'all can be damn certain that I won't be purchasing (or recommending) ANY Outback gear whatsoever.

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2803
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by raysun » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:28 pm

I'd say the Outback system, which serves me and many others quite well, isn't a good fit for your needs. The VFXR series are designed to handle a complex power system arrangement that TBH, does add a lot of complexity to the simple requirement you have for a stand-alone inverter.

You can have your opinion based on your experience and agenda, but I'll be the first to say I don't share it. Put in the right place, the OB gear works great.

Good luck brother.

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IanMcCluskey
OutBack Product Management
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Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by IanMcCluskey » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:29 pm

Hi Lonewolf, tough situation as it sounds like the inverter you purchased was programmed to voltage set points by the previous owner that do not work for your application. They probably should have told you it would no longer have the default settings.

Without one of our gateway devices, such as the MATE2, MATE3s or AXS port, there is no way to change those setpoints on the FXR. Like Raysun said, if you are able to borrow a gateway device to do the programming, it will continue to operate after disconnecting.

With regards,
Ian
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

EMCF
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My RE system: FX3048, 4 200a batteries, FM60. 3 kw array

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by EMCF » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:22 am

Of course, MATE2 will not work!
Outback Fanboy at your service

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IanMcCluskey
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Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by IanMcCluskey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:48 am

Thank you for pointing that out EMCF, the FXR class is only compatible with MATE3, MATE3S and AXS port, not the MATE2.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

lonewolf
Forum Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:24 pm
My RE system: Off grid - 12 at ESA 205fa3 panels (fixed roof mount at 45 tilt, 215 degree (SSW)), 2@ FlexMax 80, 12V battery bank (24 ea T-105 for 1500 AH @ 50% DoD) , 2@ Prosine 1800 & Xantrex 4000W true sine inverters, 2 ea. Air-X 500W (ha ha) wind turDines (sic), Honda Eu-series inverter generators, Xantrex TrueCharge+40

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by lonewolf » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:07 pm

Just wanted to provide an update. Almost 200 off-grid households here now on 15 square miles in the mountains North of Bozeman MT. Only one of which has any Outback gear at all. That one has a Mate2, which does me no good whatsoever. I purchased a Xantrex ProWatt 2000 for $350 and it has never tripped off even once in over 7 months now. This FXR2812A is the most expensive ntm ineffective boat anchor in Montana. As I slowly rebuild my off-grid life following the fire, I will not even consider another Outback product - EVER. In a 'former life', I was an electronics technician (Chief Petty Officer) in the USN Submarine Service and recognize quality when I experience it. This FXR is the worst designed garbage that I've ever encountered. Its the planet's most over-hyped, over-priced, and non-user friendly woo woo waste of resources I've encountered in 70 years. Done with being bamboozled by fan boys who get erections recalling the vast sums of money they've spent on obscene pointless nonsense and slick misleading marketing hype. Obviously, no one here wants to hear any of this - so you won't. But do understand that there is 'another' real world of real people out here (that Outback Power has absolutely ZERO appreciation for/understanding of) that can and do get along just fine for 10% or less of the cost. It literally makes me sick (still) to recall how I got 'sold' a $2000, 30 kg pile of deep black stupidity ... as useful as a truckload of hockey pucks in the Sahara.

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2803
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower One: FX3048T, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
Outback 200NC batteries (8 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by raysun » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:15 pm

It's too bad you've had such a miserable experience. Thank the lord most all of us have an exact opposite experience. Here in Hawaii I and hundreds of my neighbors live off-grid and I know dozens of folks with outback gear that works without a hitch. My FX Inverter has run 7X24X365 for over 4 years without so much as a hiccup. Everyone I know with OB gear has the same story to tell. Except one guy who had a power board go out due to a lightning strike. I know about 10 folks with FXR inverters with no complaints. I may end up installing one when I switch to lithium batteries because it has more adjustability for battery voltages needed for them.

Hopefully you'll get some gear you can live with and all will be well.

littlehawk
Forum Guru
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:54 am
My RE system: 100% Off-grid ; Four 12v 100ah Battle Born lithium-ion batteries wired in series/parallel for 24v, Four Panasonic 96 cell 335w panels (1340 watt total), Outback FM 80 MPPT, Outback Inverter FXR-2524, Outback Mate 3, Honda EU-7000is (fuel injected).

Re: FXR 2812A cut-off voltage shut down issue

Post by littlehawk » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:59 am

lonewolf wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:07 pm
Just wanted to provide an update. Almost 200 off-grid households here now on 15 square miles in the mountains North of Bozeman MT. Only one of which has any Outback gear at all. That one has a Mate2, which does me no good whatsoever. I purchased a Xantrex ProWatt 2000 for $350 and it has never tripped off even once in over 7 months now. This FXR2812A is the most expensive ntm ineffective boat anchor in Montana. As I slowly rebuild my off-grid life following the fire, I will not even consider another Outback product - EVER. In a 'former life', I was an electronics technician (Chief Petty Officer) in the USN Submarine Service and recognize quality when I experience it. This FXR is the worst designed garbage that I've ever encountered. Its the planet's most over-hyped, over-priced, and non-user friendly woo woo waste of resources I've encountered in 70 years. Done with being bamboozled by fan boys who get erections recalling the vast sums of money they've spent on obscene pointless nonsense and slick misleading marketing hype. Obviously, no one here wants to hear any of this - so you won't. But do understand that there is 'another' real world of real people out here (that Outback Power has absolutely ZERO appreciation for/understanding of) that can and do get along just fine for 10% or less of the cost. It literally makes me sick (still) to recall how I got 'sold' a $2000, 30 kg pile of deep black stupidity ... as useful as a truckload of hockey pucks in the Sahara.

I feel the same way. I bought a new OB 24v 2500w inverter and had nothing but problems. I was also told I needed to buy the Mate3 (so I did) which was useless for me. (my thread is in this forum) I scrapped the OB stuff and went with another brand if inverter and have had zero problems. I'm out 2600+ bucks and done with Outback.

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