Genset Selecton

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Re: Genset Selecton

Postby BruceS on Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:45 pm

............ bear???
So I assume South Central WA is NOT Western Australia at all?
Then again some of the mining companies out that way are classed as bears!!
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Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:32 pm

BruceS wrote:............ bear???
So I assume South Central WA is NOT Western Australia at all?
Then again some of the mining companies out that way are classed as bears!!


Yup. Lots of 'em.
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-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Works wonderfully (autostart/shutdown w/Honda EU7k). I wish I had done this years ago. But there is probably a lot to be said for managing the system manually, first. Then automation is easy.
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-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby sodamo on Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Glad to hear you are up and running.
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Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:09 am

sodamo wrote:Glad to hear you are up and running.


Yesterday was the first time the unit started, ran and shut down on its own. Today was the second. We've had several cloudy days with the first real rain since spring. The 2 min trigger executed and shut down flawlessly. I did have some weird startups and shut downs that didn't make sense along with the auto start just plain ignoring manual commands from the Mate3. Ultimately Kurt's recommendation to disable all the other rules solved the weirdness - I never did figure out which rule was causing the problem(s).

For the time being the 2 minute startup triggers at 48.8v and absorb is set for 1 hour. At shutdown this leaves me in the lower 90's for SOC. I am now tracking overall fuel consumption which looks to be up a bit. I'm not surprised. Since the EU7000is is more than twice the size of the Champion it replaced so it stands to reason. If its worth messing with, I could easily use the Champion for the extended absorb once a week or so since it has plenty of headroom during the absorb cycle and I wouldn't have to change any programming. It would just be a manual run. We'll see.
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-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton -> Autostart Consistency

Postby JRHill on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:55 pm

Last night at bed time the system voltage had dropped slightly below the two minute start setpoint. But it was advancing and falling back a few points so I dismissed it as falling within the range. Over night I didn't hear the genset start up and sure enough the next morning I was in the Red range at 47.8v/55% but not quite to system shutdown. The only active AGS setting is the 2m;48.8/2h;49.2/24hr;49.6 Voltage Start and no settings have changed since it was set up. So I manually fired off the generator via the Mate3 at 8:13am and it ran for about 4 hours to get to ~90% SOC.

In the morning I reviewed and verified all parameters and all were as set. What I did notice is that the manual run initiated this morning was not recorded as a manual run but as a 2 min Voltage Start at 47.8/55% at 8:13am/11/01/18. The Event log shows that a 2 hr Voltage Start was initiated at 8:21pm/10/31/18;49.2v; 74% with a run fault at 8:29pm/10/31/18 and next an AGS Gen Stop at 8:29pm/10/31.18 last night.

So according to the Event log the FM initiated a run, the genset did not fire off and the run was terminated all while the wife and I were watching old Vincent Price movies on Halloween. Is this evidence of evil spirits and AGS gremlins attacking my power? I propose an event log entry for unexplained actions/inactions on 10/31.
Last edited by JRHill on Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:19 pm

Why would the Charging State in the green Gen hot key menu not correspond to the Charging State in the Charger menu when in autostart? i mainly notice this in the low 90's of SOC. Yes, its off this time of year but why the difference?
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby ForeverHomestead on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:52 pm

Hey JR, what did you end up using as your voltage start settings?
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Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:58 am

ForeverHomestead wrote:Hey JR, what did you end up using as your voltage start settings?


2 min = 48.8, 2 hr = 49.2 and 24hr = 49.6
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Location: South central WA
My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:14 pm

Folks, I neglected to check/fill the tank yesterday. Duh, the EU7000is shut down early in a run last night when it ran out of gas. So this got me to thinking that I should check fuel filters, etc. or at least have a spare available. I can't find any technical info on line for typical service parts let alone anything other than a reference to "qualified" shop.

Searching online didn't yield much other than non-applicable Youtube stuff or the typical sites that advertise a manual just to get you to install their special OS optimizer app.

I am able to complete my maintenance but it helps to have spares on hand when doing so - so what's a good recourse for the spares?
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby BruceS on Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:18 pm

Looks like I'll be also buying one of the Honda units soon.
Service kits & parts can be bought from a dealer in Australia but I noticed a lot on Ebay too.
I'll be installing a water trap filter as well I reckon. (similar to what I have on the outboard motor)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MERCURY-NAN ... rk:23:pf:0
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Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:31 pm

BruceS wrote:I'll be installing a water trap filter as well I reckon. (similar to what I have on the outboard motor)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MERCURY-NAN ... rk:23:pf:0


For stationary equipment that doesn't move or get agitated I make my own water separator out of a small jar (<8oz) with a metal lid. For the inlet and outlet lines I drill two undersized holes and enlarge them with a tapered rod to a tight fit on the neoprene fuel lines. The tapered rod, when slightly twirled while lightly pushing rolls the sharp, drilled edge into a wider flange so the tube stays tight when pulled through. Then a blob of Devcon Plastic Steel or JB Weld on the top where the lines go through. I've made several of these in service for years to trap water. An inexpensive in-line filter serves those units that didn't come with one.

BTW, from the above, I didn't do this on a new $4k genset. Besides, there is very little room in there for accessories. The EU7000 has a fuel pickup combined with the fuel pump, in the tank. So unless you get a heavy load of watered down fuel it'll just sit down there awaiting a more serious problem.
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby BruceS on Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:52 pm

Have you overcome the problem of using a large external fuel tank for the new genny?
I have discussed with dealers of running mine off the 600 litre tank under the boat like at present with the older 6.5 Honda.
Both suggested warranty will be void if I do.
I might just use a 12v pump through a water trap into the tank built in to the genny until someone comes up with a better idea or until warranty is over. Just top it up daily or as needed.
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6 X 250w X 24V panels ... Outback Inverter 24V X 3Kva (VFX3024E) ... Conext MPPT 60 150 solar controller .... Honda EU6.5i generator (manual start) ... 12 X 2V @ 600Ahr Sonnenschein Batteries ... Shore power facility ... Auto changeover between inverter/shore & genny.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:09 am

BruceS wrote:Have you overcome the problem of using a large external fuel tank for the new genny?


I've been pondering this but with the 5.5 USG capacity it lasts me 3 days. By then its time to check it over anyway. Since the fuel filter is on the bottom of the fuel pump, inside the tank, its not an easy problem to solve unless the on board tank is bypassed completely and a separate fuel pump and filter are used in the other tank. You should find these links useful:

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=263534&d=1474544103
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=263536&d=1474544165

Best,
Jim
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton

Postby blackswan555 on Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:58 pm

2 min = 48.8, 2 hr = 49.2 and 24hr = 49.6
Seems very conservative, (not enough DOD for my liking,, maybe in the upper 80s) Have you confirmed settings with your SGs ?

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Re: Genset Selecton

Postby JRHill on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:58 pm

blackswan555 wrote:
2 min = 48.8, 2 hr = 49.2 and 24hr = 49.6
Seems very conservative, (not enough DOD for my liking,, maybe in the upper 80s) Have you confirmed settings with your SGs ?


Interesting that you ask, Tim.

The genset didn't autostart yesterday morning - an issue I'm currently troubleshooting - and came close to low voltage shutdown. But I caught it and ran the generator for a full charge cycle (manually but on AGS) and then went over to repeated rebulks over 10 hours. I checked random SGs after the initial recharge and was into the Red (<1.225) in each cell checked after the AGS charge cycle completed (reduced from 4.5 to 1.5 hrs for the winter season). Whoa. Then, with the repeated rebulks and albeit a long run into the evening hours when we'd normally be on batteries and with the additional soaking the next morning I was in the low 90s for SOC instead of well below 80. So as the summer hours have decreased I've been gradually and cumulatively undercharging due to lost absorb time. And of course the FNDC is way off but it is useful in counting the in and out.

Running the genset through the full summer absorb programming is crazy on a day-to-day basis but I have determined to do it at least once per week, this time of the year. But I hadn't implemented the schedule yet. Yesterday gave me a wake-up call.

For those people pondering absorb cycles and system health with flooded batteries, read and discern, esp. during season changes.

Probably more to come,
Jim
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My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

Re: Genset Selecton - Results

Postby JRHill on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:24 pm

OK, a month or so into using the EU7000is:

1) The auto/remote start was my primary priority. It works wonderfully. There are a few oddities but I don't think they have anything to do with the genset.

2) Fuel efficiency is excellent. I have the 'ol Champion 3100 inverter tuned and ready as a backup. I thought the Champion might be good to run for the end of the absorb - and I tested/compared the two when only 700-800 watts are needed as the charge demand tapers down. Nope, its not worth the concern. It would seem the fuel injection of the Honda is efficient enough that it uses very little more fuel at the lower loads. The fuel injection vs the carberated, smaller unit, is not worth the attention. So I'll run the Champion genset only if a backup is needed.

3) I really wish this $4k unit had an oil pump. It's an 11hp single cylinder so oil changes are critical. It's just splash like any other small horizontal engine. A magnet on the oil plug is recommended . I'll be using synthetic throughout but there are many opinions on this subject.

4) Noise. This will surprise you. Its quieter than the Champion at any given load. As a matter of fact, you have to listen for it. Its like a low vibration in the distance. The Mate's LEDs to tell you it's working and it's only 15' away from the outside wall of the kitchen/living area. Frankly I want to hear stuff when its supposed to be working. I just don't want it to be louder than everything else.

But it is too expensive. Just like all that Outback stuff. There should be a new law....
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JRHill
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Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:12 pm
Location: South central WA
My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Honda EU7000is w/2 wire auto start via FM80 aux, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Tristar 45 Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with various upgrades and workarounds.

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