Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

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jstone
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My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
MATE3S

Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:44 pm

Hello all:

Two issues:

1. Mini grid will not connect per the voltage and timer. The attached screen shot was me manually selecting AC input when the voltage was down to 23.6.

2. The battery charging function of the voltage is not following the timer for absorb and float.

Anyone see anything wrong?
Screenshot from 2020-07-29 23-41-52.png
Screenshot from 2020-07-29 23-42-10.png
Screenshot from 2020-07-29 23-42-38.png

jstone
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am
My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
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Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:46 pm

Screenshot from 2020-07-29 19-04-32.png

Mike Curran
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Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by Mike Curran » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:35 am

So just to be clear, that last screenshot of your Optics dashboard graph is you manually starting an absorb cycle using AC input at around 2:00 am?

Sorry for whats maybe an unnecessary question. Your connect delay is set for 60 minutes. Was battery voltage under the reconnect setpoint that long?
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

pss
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My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by pss » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:49 am

I noticed your Minigrid delay was set to 60 minutes. Try reducing this to 10 minutes or less.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by Mike Curran » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:53 am

I noticed your Minigrid delay was set to 60 minutes.
So did I :smile:
Mike Curran wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:35 am
Your connect delay is set for 60 minutes. Was battery voltage under the reconnect setpoint that long?
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

jstone
Forum Whiz
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am
My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
MATE3S

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:12 am

Yes, it is set to 60 minutes. That was by design, because I've noticed that at 24.2 volts, about an hour later its at 24 volts, and that's when I want it to changeover. For two days in a row, the voltage dropped below 24.2 volts for greater than 60 minutes, and it never turns on. And last night, it took probably 5 times of manually telling it to manually change to grid, and then the only way I could make it switch is to take it to 2 minutes.

I've noticed that this system has many bugs in it, because I've done extensive testing with a new profile, etc. I've set basic settings waiting on a trigger that doesn't happen, or triggers incorrectly.

jstone
Forum Whiz
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am
My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
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Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:16 am

Mike Curran wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:35 am
So just to be clear, that last screenshot of your Optics dashboard graph is you manually starting an absorb cycle using AC input at around 2:00 am?

Sorry for whats maybe an unnecessary question. Your connect delay is set for 60 minutes. Was battery voltage under the reconnect setpoint that long?

Yes, that is correct. I was waiting for it to switch over and it never did. So what specific reconnect set point are you referring to? I don't see that option in mini grid.

Thanks for the response.

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by Mike Curran » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:10 pm

I'm referring to the battery voltage connect to grid setpoint, which you have set for 24.2.

Rather than use 24.2 for 60 minutes, why not just set it at 24.0 for 1 minute? Seems like your observed 1 hour battery voltage decay from 24.2 to 24.0 could vary considerably based on how your system is being loaded. In 60 minutes voltage could dip a lot more than 0.2 volts...
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

jstone
Forum Whiz
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am
My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
MATE3S

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:42 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:10 pm
I'm referring to the battery voltage connect to grid setpoint, which you have set for 24.2.

Rather than use 24.2 for 60 minutes, why not just set it at 24.0 for 1 minute? Seems like your observed 1 hour battery voltage decay from 24.2 to 24.0 could vary considerably based on how your system is being loaded. In 60 minutes voltage could dip a lot more than 0.2 volts...
Yes, I understand. My load is constant. 300-500w. I could go for 24 for 1 minute but the point I am making is that at 24.2 for an hour, it did not activate, which makes me question the system that it won't at 24.0 for 1 minute.

Furthermore, I'd like to know at what point it drops the grid, and why it's not meeting the charge parameters I set of 2 hours absorb and 2 hours float? Clearly the inverter is not following the programming as per this document.
Screenshot from 2020-07-30 19-14-58.png
Last edited by jstone on Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jstone
Forum Whiz
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am
My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
MATE3S

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:58 pm

pss wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:49 am
I noticed your Minigrid delay was set to 60 minutes. Try reducing this to 10 minutes or less.
Yes I know. The reason is, it stays at 24.0 for quite a while (like an hour or more before it drops to 23.9) If I do 24 for 10 minutes or less, I'm losing an hour of battery time and buying grid.

Point being is, it shouldn't matter. The timer should start as soon as it drops below said voltage and kick on after 60 minutes. If 60 minutes doesn't work, who is to say 10 would? I don't want to go to sleep and find out the system drained my battery down to protection voltage.

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by fcwlp » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 pm

jstone wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:58 pm
The timer should start as soon as it drops below said voltage and kick on after 60 minutes.
I have not tracked the timer logic used for this timer. There is a possibility that this timer may reset to zero if the voltage goes back above the set point. Note what the manual says below for this timer.

From the FXR Manual Mini-Grid section
The inverter will reconnect to the utility grid if the battery voltage decreases to the Connect to
Grid set point and remains there for the Delay time period. These items are shown in the tables
which begin on page 66.

pss
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Posts: 613
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My RE system: 8330 watts in three strings, Flexmax 60 x 3, Radian 8048A, GSLC load center, Mate 3S, Hub 10.3, FN-DC and 900 Amp, 48V Trojan T105-RE battery bank.

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by pss » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:46 pm

Reading this thread I am reminded of other posts which talk about the actual voltages that are present vs. the voltages displayed by the Outback equipment. In other words, if you measure the voltage with a good meter at the battery terminals, then at the inverter, charge controller, etc. and see what Outback is reporting and displaying, you often find a discrepancy from like 0.2-0.4 volts. This could be what is happening too in which case you may want to calibrate the equipment if it has not been done or adjust the programmed voltages.

jstone
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Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:36 am
My RE system: VFXR3524A
FM60-150
MATE3S

Re: Mini-Grid not connecting to grid

Post by jstone » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:59 pm

fcwlp wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 pm
jstone wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:58 pm
The timer should start as soon as it drops below said voltage and kick on after 60 minutes.
I have not tracked the timer logic used for this timer. There is a possibility that this timer may reset to zero if the voltage goes back above the set point. Note what the manual says below for this timer.

Yes, that's correct from an exchanged I had with outback support. But in this case, the voltage kept dropping and didn't peak back above, and definitley stayed below the threshold beyond the set time. Appears to be a configuration problem in the logic. Nevertheless, I followed the other instructions to reduce to less than 10 minutes and that is a workaround.

Now if I can figure out why it does not absorb for 2 hours and then float for 2 hours as I have instructed it ](*,) ](*,)

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