gvfx3648 - no AC output

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defed
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gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:00 am

i have a gvfx3648 inverter that suddenly stopped outputting AC. i head a click and then noticed my router (powered by the inverter at the time) was off. went to check on inverter and the mate and inverter were both 'off'. i have DC into the main lugs. i cycled the switch supplying the DC to see if anything would come on, nothing. all status lights are off. i have a flexware surge protector (fw-sp-aca i think) and it shows 'DC ACTIVE'. again, no AC out. i tried the on/off jumper, nothing. so i have no AC out and the mate has no power. is there a way to troubleshoot which component has gone bad (control board, AC output board, surge protector or even the transformer)? i disassembled it as shown on outback's youtube video and see no obviously bad components on any board.

thanks for any advice.

Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
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- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
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Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by Mike Curran » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:59 am

Just from reading the flexware surge protector manual, seems like those indicator LEDs should tell you where the problem lies. Heres a screenshot of the manual showing how to interpret them.
Screenshot_20200722-145700_Drive.jpg
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1doPLR3 ... p=drivesdk

Can you tell us exactly which lights are lit?
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by fcwlp » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 pm

defed wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:00 am
so i have no AC out and the mate has no power
The Mate is powered from the Hub using DC from the inverter and/or the CC. Are the LEDs lit on the HUB? Take a look at the Hub manual for the various LEDs.

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:18 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:59 am
Just from reading the flexware surge protector manual, seems like those indicator LEDs should tell you where the problem lies. Heres a screenshot of the manual showing how to interpret them.Screenshot_20200722-145700_Drive.jpg https://drive.google.com/file/d/1doPLR3 ... p=drivesdk

Can you tell us exactly which lights are lit?
the only light lit on the surge protector is DC ACTIVE, so it appears to be seeing input from the battery. i am having trouble seeing how the surge protector actually works. let's say it failed to the point where it won't even show error state, i presume this may not allow the inverter to switch to 'on'. but again, the way it's wired, i am not grasping how it functions to protect the unit or prevent it from operating. i will note that the surge protector is the only board w/ an 'electronics' smell. not like it's burnt, but a distinct odor i can't really explain. i thought about trying to power it up w/o using the surge protector, but am hesitant in case there is something wrong that the surge protector protected the unit from.
Last edited by defed on Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:22 pm

fcwlp wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 pm
defed wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:00 am
so i have no AC out and the mate has no power
The Mate is powered from the Hub using DC from the inverter and/or the CC. Are the LEDs lit on the HUB? Take a look at the Hub manual for the various LEDs.
i don't have a hub. the mate is plugged directly into the ac output board via cat 5 cable. i could use the mate to turn the inverter on and off, so i thought perhaps it died turning the inverter off (thus the 'click' i heard). but since i can't seem to turn the inverter on w/o the mate using the jumper, i'm thinking the mate is not the problem. there is no ac out at the output board nor is there power to the mate, which board is telling the inverter to not 'turn on'.

raysun
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by raysun » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:44 pm

Has the Inverter been reassembled?

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:50 pm

raysun wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:44 pm
Has the Inverter been reassembled?
not yet, still in individual components.

raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
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Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by raysun » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:03 pm

defed wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:50 pm
raysun wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:44 pm
Has the Inverter been reassembled?
not yet, still in individual components.
What is the measured battery voltage?

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:23 am

raysun wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:03 pm
defed wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:50 pm
raysun wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:44 pm
Has the Inverter been reassembled?
not yet, still in individual components.
What is the measured battery voltage?
53 volts on float.

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by fcwlp » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:46 am

defed wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:22 pm
i don't have a hub. the mate is plugged directly into the ac output board via cat 5 cable.
With no DC output to the RJ45 jack, it is most likely an issue with the control board.

Usually when a surge protector deals with a surge they "fail" open, allowing current to still pass.

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:07 am

fcwlp wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:46 am
defed wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:22 pm
i don't have a hub. the mate is plugged directly into the ac output board via cat 5 cable.
With no DC output to the RJ45 jack, it is most likely an issue with the control board.

Usually when a surge protector deals with a surge they "fail" open, allowing current to still pass.
i was hoping the fact that i had neither ac output nor power on the rj45 jack would help narrow it down. it's like when i cut dc to the inverter and the whole thing shuts off (inverter and mate). when powering the inverter off w/ the mate, the mate still has power. does the dc power used in the boards come directly from the battery input or is all dc in inverted, then rectified back to dc for board functions, such as powering the mate. is it possible that the transformer is dead and not outputting anything (probably unlikely).

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by fcwlp » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:22 pm

defed wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:07 am
i was hoping the fact that i had neither ac output nor power on the rj45 jack would help narrow it down. it's like when i cut dc to the inverter and the whole thing shuts off (inverter and mate). when powering the inverter off w/ the mate, the mate still has power. does the dc power used in the boards come directly from the battery input or is all dc in inverted, then rectified back to dc for board functions, such as powering the mate. is it possible that the transformer is dead and not outputting anything (probably unlikely).
The DC voltage for the RJ45 jack will not be the battery voltage. I don't have a schematic but there is likely a voltage regulator of some type that takes the ~48V of your system and converts it to the appropriate DC voltage for the Hub or Mate in your case. My guess is still the control board.

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:21 pm

fcwlp wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:22 pm
defed wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:07 am
i was hoping the fact that i had neither ac output nor power on the rj45 jack would help narrow it down. it's like when i cut dc to the inverter and the whole thing shuts off (inverter and mate). when powering the inverter off w/ the mate, the mate still has power. does the dc power used in the boards come directly from the battery input or is all dc in inverted, then rectified back to dc for board functions, such as powering the mate. is it possible that the transformer is dead and not outputting anything (probably unlikely).
The DC voltage for the RJ45 jack will not be the battery voltage. I don't have a schematic but there is likely a voltage regulator of some type that takes the ~48V of your system and converts it to the appropriate DC voltage for the Hub or Mate in your case. My guess is still the control board.
thanks for the info. there is one component on the control board that could be damaged. not sure what it is, but half is shiny and half is flat, like it's possibly burnt.

it is at Y1, just to the upper left of the 'O' in Outback above what i believe is a transformer (perhaps supplies the voltage for the mate). https://www.zonnaenergy.com/parts/outba ... rol-board/

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by fcwlp » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:41 am

defed wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:21 pm
it is at Y1, just to the upper left of the 'O' in Outback above what i believe is a transformer (perhaps supplies the voltage for the mate). https://www.zonnaenergy.com/parts/outba ... rol-board/
Y1 is a 16MHz oscillator. The voltage regulator is likely in the top right area where you see the jumpers labeled 12, 24, 36 & 48.

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:39 am

fcwlp wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:41 am
defed wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:21 pm
it is at Y1, just to the upper left of the 'O' in Outback above what i believe is a transformer (perhaps supplies the voltage for the mate). https://www.zonnaenergy.com/parts/outba ... rol-board/
Y1 is a 16MHz oscillator. The voltage regulator is likely in the top right area where you see the jumpers labeled 12, 24, 36 & 48.

ah i did not notice that jumper w/ the different voltages, interesting.

i presume the FET board needs to be 'turned on' by the control board to pass power to the transformer. i put it back together and have no output from the transformer at all, so it is not 'turning on'. i am tempted to try to apply voltage directly to the transformer inputs just to see if that is working, but i'm a very amateur electrician at best (even worse w/ electronics) and not sure if it's a good idea! just to rule out a transformer problem.

fcwlp
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My RE system: GS8048A, FM80 w/3,600 W PV Fixed, FM80 w/2,700W on Zomeworks tracker, Mate3, 24 Trojan 2V L16 1100AH @ C20, Grid-Tied with Kohler 14RESA LPG Generator and MEP-803 Diesel if needed
I also install and maintain grid-tied and off-grid systems, details will be given for these system if required
Location: 80 miles NE of Phoenix at 5500'

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by fcwlp » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:54 am

defed wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:39 am
i am tempted to try to apply voltage directly to the transformer inputs just to see if that is working, but i'm a very amateur electrician at best (even worse w/ electronics) and not sure if it's a good idea! just to rule out a transformer problem.
That is not a good idea. Instead measure the resistance of the primary and secondary windings. I do not know the resistance values but secondary should be higher. I also doubt that it is a transformer problem to start with.

At this point you probably should initiate a RMA with OB and send it to the service center in Phoenix. I had a GVFX3624 repaired there last year, fortunately I live close enough that I just dropped it off on a trip to Phoenix.

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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by verdigo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:18 pm

Did you ever figure this out? Was it the control board?
Dennis

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:44 pm

verdigo wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:18 pm
Did you ever figure this out? Was it the control board?

no, they sent me an RMA. Need to decide if I want to just send it back or take a chance on replacing the control board. I find it hard to believe that they can't/won't even tell me if there is something to check on each board to see where the 'flow of power' stops to narrow down which board. For all I know, it's the FET board and it's not even getting past that. Maybe if there was a schematic, I could figure out what to check where.

verdigo
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by verdigo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:19 pm

Think I will crack mine open anyway. Hoping for something obvious. Mine is the same as yours. Dead, no lights and the Mate is dead as well. The control board seems like the obvious choice everything else being equal.
Dennis

defed
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by defed » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:42 pm

verdigo wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:19 pm
Think I will crack mine open anyway. Hoping for something obvious. Mine is the same as yours. Dead, no lights and the Mate is dead as well. The control board seems like the obvious choice everything else being equal.
i was hoping the same thing, a blown up capacitor or something. i only found 1 component that looks like it might be burnt, it's shiny on one half and dull on the other...an oscillator. no idea how to test it. other than that, everything else looks good. there are a bunch of test points on the control board, but again, w/o a schematic, no idea what i'm testing for.

it's real easy to open and take apart. there are a cpl youtube videos on it. think one was on outbacks channel.

verdigo
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Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by verdigo » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:40 pm

Yeah. I hate to admit it but when mine was new I was trying to do some creative stuff with circuit breakers.
Anyway the inverter met the grid in a bad way and I wound up replacing the control board with a rebuilt one.
It was under warranty but since I fried it I sent it in and Outback sent the reman one for like 250 if I remember right.
The battery circuit breaker sounded like a firecracker going off when it tripped.
Dennis

Mike Curran
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Posts: 1788
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: gvfx3648 - no AC output

Post by Mike Curran » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:12 pm

The battery circuit breaker sounded like a firecracker going off when it tripped.
I HATE when that happens! O:)
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

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