new VFXR inverter

Discussion about OutBack Inverters in Grid Tie Applications

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new VFXR inverter

Postby shastatodd on Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:00 pm

i have two separate GVFX inverters here at my home and recently discovered these have been discontinued. this leads me to several questions:

1) how long will outback continue to support the GVFX systems with replacement boards, temp sensors, fans etc?
2) how compatible is the new GFXR inverter with the original GFX units?

the case looks the same, so i assuming only the boards are different? what features/ changes does the new unit incorporate?

thanks,

todd
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shastatodd
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Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:01 pm
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA.
My RE system: SYSTEM ONE:
A single, turbocharged GVFX-3648 inverter (includes DT kludge for generator charging); 4.5 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged MX60 charge controller; eight, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

SYSTEM TWO:
A single, sealed GTFX-2524 inverter; 2.0 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged FM60 charge controller; four, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

The combined inverter systems typically sell an average of 20 kWh/day.
Peak summer selling is around 40 kWh/day.

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby Sandra Herrera on Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:17 pm

Hello, Todd.
OutBack will continue to provide technical support for all discontinued FX models. Warranty repair through our service depots will be available for a minimum of five (5) years from date of purchase.
The FX and FXR are not compatible, they will not work together in a system.
Sandra Herrera
Applications Engineering


OutBack Power Technologies
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Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby sodamo on Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:54 pm

Aloha Sandra

I realize this was asked in Grid tied, but I use 4 fx's in my off grid system (although only 1 of 4 is recognized by OpticsRE)
At least 3, maybe all 4 are more than 5 years old. Sounds like I need to develop a long term replacement option. Without checking, I was hoping there might be a 1 for 1 replacement option, i.e. replace FX with something compatible. The way I read above, once my FX's are no longer supportable, I will have to change them all (hopefully compatible with rest of my PS4 system). I'm gonna guess we aren't allowed to know that FX end date as the company would frown on that and they know that for off grid folks keeping the system operational ends up getting top priority.
It would be very very nice if Outback would detail an upgrade/replacement plan we could follow. I personally prefer to upgrade stuff as a means of longevity rather than emergency necessity.

Any insight would be great.
sodamo
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Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
Location: Ninole, Hi
My RE system: Totally off grid
36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
4 FX3048T
RTS
4 FM 80 charge controllers
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3
OpticsRE - Piha Kahuku
18 Aquion Aspen 48S (39.6kw)
24Kw Yangdong Genset (Affordable Generators - Poor support)
10Kw MEP 803a
2Kw Honda 2000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: http://www.weatherlink.com/user/sodamo/

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby shastatodd on Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Sandra Herrera wrote:Hello, Todd.
OutBack will continue to provide technical support for all discontinued FX models. Warranty repair through our service depots will be available for a minimum of five (5) years from date of purchase.
The FX and FXR are not compatible, they will not work together in a system.


hi sandra,

thank you for the information. my home system is a single gvfx3648 @120 vac, so when my unit fails and the spare set of boards i have for it fail, would it be accurate to assume, replacement VFXR boards would work with the existing case and transformer? would my original mate also need replacing? are the internal fans the same? i need to replace mine every ~5 years.

also, can you explain why the fx was discontinued and replaced with the fxr? what hardware/ software level changes were made? in looking over the specs, the only change i see is the idle current went from 21 to 34 watts! is the efficiency better? my gvfx runs (real world metering) 86 to 87%. are there two ac inputs yet? this was a serious design flaw with the fx inverter as my grid tie with battery back up customers always wanted a generator input too.

thanks,

todd
User avatar
shastatodd
OutBack Expert
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:01 pm
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA.
My RE system: SYSTEM ONE:
A single, turbocharged GVFX-3648 inverter (includes DT kludge for generator charging); 4.5 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged MX60 charge controller; eight, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

SYSTEM TWO:
A single, sealed GTFX-2524 inverter; 2.0 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged FM60 charge controller; four, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

The combined inverter systems typically sell an average of 20 kWh/day.
Peak summer selling is around 40 kWh/day.

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby EMCF on Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:51 pm

sodamo wrote:Aloha Sandra

I realize this was asked in Grid tied, but I use 4 fx's in my off grid system (although only 1 of 4 is recognized by OpticsRE)
Any insight would be great.


Hi David,
It does not seem right that only one FX inverter is getting recognized by OPTICSRE. You must be having red exclamation point on the other 3 FX inverters on the device map window right now.
Here's a recommendation to make those exclamation points to a green check mark. : Go to System Tools/Click on Devices icon/On the dropdown menu, select your inverter type for the 3 inverters/Click Save and Finish.
Now, when you hover your mouse tip on the inverter icon in the dashboard, you should be able to see all four FX.
Good luck!
EMCF
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Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:22 am
My RE system: FX3048, 4 200a batteries, FM60. 3 kw array

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby sodamo on Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:26 pm

Yea, something isn't right. I'm not able to fix on my end, but OB did and trying to root out the cause, perhaps something amiss in my account. When I first got on OpticsRE I had a similar problem where it wouldn't let me chose my inverter type. TS was able to configure but apparently the reason remains.
sodamo
OutBack Guru
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
Location: Ninole, Hi
My RE system: Totally off grid
36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
4 FX3048T
RTS
4 FM 80 charge controllers
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3
OpticsRE - Piha Kahuku
18 Aquion Aspen 48S (39.6kw)
24Kw Yangdong Genset (Affordable Generators - Poor support)
10Kw MEP 803a
2Kw Honda 2000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: http://www.weatherlink.com/user/sodamo/

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby shastatodd on Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:40 pm

Sandra Herrera wrote:Hello, Todd.
OutBack will continue to provide technical support for all discontinued FX models. Warranty repair through our service depots will be available for a minimum of five (5) years from date of purchase.
The FX and FXR are not compatible, they will not work together in a system.


still waiting for a reply to my question...

hi sandra,

thank you for the information. my home system is a single gvfx3648 @120 vac, so when my unit fails and the spare set of boards i have for it fail, would it be accurate to assume, replacement VFXR boards would work with the existing case and transformer? would my original mate also need replacing? are the internal fans the same? i need to replace mine every ~5 years.

also, can you explain why the fx was discontinued and replaced with the fxr? what hardware/ software level changes were made? in looking over the specs, the only change i see is the idle current went from 21 to 34 watts! is the efficiency better? my gvfx runs (real world metering) 86 to 87%. are there two ac inputs yet? this was a serious design flaw with the fx inverter as my grid tie with battery back up customers always wanted a generator input too.

thanks,

todd
User avatar
shastatodd
OutBack Expert
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:01 pm
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA.
My RE system: SYSTEM ONE:
A single, turbocharged GVFX-3648 inverter (includes DT kludge for generator charging); 4.5 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged MX60 charge controller; eight, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

SYSTEM TWO:
A single, sealed GTFX-2524 inverter; 2.0 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged FM60 charge controller; four, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

The combined inverter systems typically sell an average of 20 kWh/day.
Peak summer selling is around 40 kWh/day.

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby michaelkiera on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:16 am

Sandra Herrera wrote:The FX and FXR are not compatible, they will not work together in a system.


Saw this thread . . currently 'ave a single VFX3648 which, for the last five years, is still running great.

Am interested in upgrading, expanding via 'stacking' with the new VFXR3648A Inverter.

Can old system be upgraded via new boards? Am I starting from scratch again?
Only two inverters, one per leg, may be installed in a series arrangement. They must be the same model.

sigh I take it a GVFX3648 is also NOT stack compatable with a VFX?

are there two ac inputs yet? this was a serious design flaw with the fx inverter as my grid tie with battery back up customers always wanted a generator input too.


Most decent gensets have a separate panel with xfer switch (grid or gen?) standard.
Last edited by michaelkiera on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
michaelkiera
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Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:54 am
Location: Atlanta Georgia (southside 'burbs)
My RE system: 9 Astronergy 240W-P (3 Unirac mounted serial banks of 3) @ 114VOC / 2.3KWH into FLEXmax 80 charging two series/parallel banks of 4 (48v) wet cels into VFX3648. Using HBX grid-tie mode (split L1/L2 legs of main panel) with CNG fueled 6kW Generac 5837 Standby genset. Experimenting with Low voltage (3v) water electrolizer to use hydrogen / O2 as secondary storage.
( hho2u.com/HHO_DRY_CELL.html )

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby shastatodd on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:25 am

michaelkiera wrote:
Sandra Herrera wrote:The FX and FXR are not compatible, they will not work together in a system.


Saw this thread . . currently have a single VFX3648 which, for the last five years, is still running great.

Am interested in upgrading, expanding via 'stacking' with the new VFXR3648A Inverter.

Can old system be upgraded via new boards? Am I starting from scratch again?

Is a GVFX3648 stack compatible with a VFX?


getting answers for this was like pulling teeth... but after absolutely badgering ob tech support, i was able to get the answer to this:

no. the problem is not just with the boards, the transformer is not compatible either. only the internal fan's are exchangeable.
but the GVFX3648 is still made so why not just buy a second unit rather than considering mixing VFX's and VFR's?
Last edited by shastatodd on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
shastatodd
OutBack Expert
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:01 pm
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA.
My RE system: SYSTEM ONE:
A single, turbocharged GVFX-3648 inverter (includes DT kludge for generator charging); 4.5 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged MX60 charge controller; eight, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

SYSTEM TWO:
A single, sealed GTFX-2524 inverter; 2.0 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged FM60 charge controller; four, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

The combined inverter systems typically sell an average of 20 kWh/day.
Peak summer selling is around 40 kWh/day.

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby michaelkiera on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:47 am

shastatodd wrote:
but the GVFX3648 is still made so why not just buy a second unit rather than mixing VFX's and VFR's?


Thx for reply shasta . . . also been reading .pdf's.

It's possible to do within limitations:

* GT Grid-Tie FXs cannot be used with the FW-X240 Auto Transformer.

when connected in "SERIES" BUT . . .

Grid-Tie FXs cannot
be used with this (PARALLELED DUAL)
configuration. (AT ALL)
michaelkiera
OutBack Whiz
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:54 am
Location: Atlanta Georgia (southside 'burbs)
My RE system: 9 Astronergy 240W-P (3 Unirac mounted serial banks of 3) @ 114VOC / 2.3KWH into FLEXmax 80 charging two series/parallel banks of 4 (48v) wet cels into VFX3648. Using HBX grid-tie mode (split L1/L2 legs of main panel) with CNG fueled 6kW Generac 5837 Standby genset. Experimenting with Low voltage (3v) water electrolizer to use hydrogen / O2 as secondary storage.
( hho2u.com/HHO_DRY_CELL.html )

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby sparksalot on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:49 pm

(V)FXRs do not mix with any other OB inverters just other (V)FXRs...NO EXCEPTIONS...PERIOD
sparksalot
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Posts: 94
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My RE system: FLEXpower TWO VFXR3648A Grid-Tied and Battery Backup Hybrid

Traction battery FLA 48 volt 805Ahr.

30 SolarWorld 245w mono

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby JRHill on Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:56 pm

Sandra Herrera wrote:OutBack will continue to provide technical support for all discontinued FX models. Warranty repair through our service depots will be available for a minimum of five (5) years from date of purchase.


Sandra, all,

Discontinued items will receive technical support and warranty repairs... OK, got that.

Please address the Outback position on depot level repair on discontinued items such as the VFX3648, etc. I understand that as time goes on the installed base will continue to get smaller but for the foreseeable future, what is the policy?

Best,
Jim
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Posts: 262
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Location: South central WA
My RE system: -House: FM 80, VFX 3648, FlexnetDC, FlexWare xformer, Mate 3 / Hub, WattPlot/, 2925w SunTech 195, Trojan L16RE-B Batteries. Backup 1: Champion 75531i 3100, backup 2: 11kw Miller Bobcat;
-Well: Grundfos 11-SQF-2 pump, controller & AC switch (CU200, IO101), Morningstar 15a/48vdc Controller, 780w SunTech 195, Trojan golf cart batteries.
-All running since July '11 with no critical problems.

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby Sandra Herrera on Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:17 pm

Jim,
As per my original post, service and repair parts will be available for a minimum of 5 years from date of purchase.
Sandra Herrera
Applications Engineering


OutBack Power Technologies
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Sandra Herrera
OutBack Management
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:54 am
Location: Arlington, Washington

Re: new VFXR inverter

Postby shastatodd on Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:03 pm

and just to be clear (with what i was told by another ob rep) the GVFX-3648 & GTFX-2524 are both still made, right? any long term plans to discontinue these, or are we good to go for awhile?
User avatar
shastatodd
OutBack Expert
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:01 pm
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA.
My RE system: SYSTEM ONE:
A single, turbocharged GVFX-3648 inverter (includes DT kludge for generator charging); 4.5 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged MX60 charge controller; eight, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

SYSTEM TWO:
A single, sealed GTFX-2524 inverter; 2.0 kW STC of actively tracked PV; turbocharged FM60 charge controller; four, Surrette FC-420 lead calcium wet cell batteries; E-Meter (Link-10).

The combined inverter systems typically sell an average of 20 kWh/day.
Peak summer selling is around 40 kWh/day.


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