Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

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Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:45 pm

Hello, I recently had the Outback Flex One with Flex Net and Mate and Flex Max installed at my home in the Maule region in Chile and it works, in that I can turn on lights at night and recharge my laptop and phone when necessary. However, I observed over the first three days that the batteries were not recharging, although there was a stead 70-90V entering the PV for at least 8 hours each day. I have not been able to track down the exact manufacturer specifications for the batteries (I know they are two 12V AGM batteries 105 amp each) and so I have not tinkered with any of that. I noticed though that the Outback has automatically recognised the batteries for what they are. On the fourth day, and with the batteries at 69% I decided to turn off the inverter. In the morning, I heard some clicking sounds and the Mate showed that the batteries were back to 100%. If I leave the inverter on, the batteries don´t recharge, but when its off during the night, the following morning, the batteries recharge between 7:45 - 9:00. I am wondering if anybody know why this might be? And do you have any suggestions so that I don´t have to be turning the inverter off at night? Your advice would be kindly appreciated!
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby Sandra Herrera on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:38 am

Hello,
What is the battery charging setpoint programmed on the FM80?
How are your two solar modules wired? Series?
Look at the data logging directly on the FM80 and post daily production.
Did you program the FN-DC?
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:45 am

Hi Sandra, thanks for your help...

The charging set point is at 80

The panels are wired in series.

I have not programmed the flex net dc yet.

Which logged data would be of interest?

Thankyou for your time!
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby Sandra Herrera on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:50 am

Hello,
If you have not programmed the FN-DC, please do not use its information as a reference for system performance or troubleshooting.
The programming on the FM80 is beyond “80”, you need to program battery Aabsorb voltage and time, Float voltage and time.
The daily production from the FM80 data logs can tell you what your two panels have been producing.
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:08 am

Thankyou Sandra! I have been trying to get together that information from the moment of installation but the installer has yet to find it. Thanks for your time!
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:48 pm

Hi Sandra, here is the daily logging data from last tuesday:

Tues: 0030AH; 00.7Vp; 088Vp; 14.6Ap; 0.39KWp; MAX 27.0V MIN 23.5V; ABS 01:01; FLT 06:40

wed: 0014AH; 00.3Vp; 085Vp; 02.1Ap; 0.05KWp; MAX 24.9V MIN 24.1V; ABS 00:00; FLT 10:03

thurs: 0023AH; 00.6Vp; 086vp; 11.2Ap; 0.30KWp; MAX 26.9V MIN 23.8V; ABS 01:01; FLT 06:43

fri: 0019AH; 00.5Vp; 085Vp; 12.5Ap; 0.34KWp; MAX 26.1V MIN 24.4V; ABS 00:01; FLT 00:00

sat: 0008AH; 00.2Vp; 092Vp; 02.3Ap; 0.05KWp; MAX 25V MIN 24.5V; ABS 00:00; FLT 09:29

sun. 0016; 00.4; 086; 05.6; 0.15; 26.9; 24.4; 01:00; 06:08

mon: 0047; 01.3; 089; 10.3; 0.28; 30.1;24V; 01:01; 01:06

tues: 0028; 00.7; 086; 05.1; 0.14; 28.3; 24.7; 00:00; 06:01

Does this reveal anything to you?
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby Sandra Herrera on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:30 am

Hello,
Based on your system of two batteries and two solar modules, the information provided seems normal.
My recommendation is to program the system to the specifics equipment, leaving the products at default value will not provide accurate information.
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Thanks for your help Sandra! I have been able to rustle up and add the following information into the flex one:

Charger limit: 25 amperes
Absorb set point: 29.4v
Absorb time limit: 5 hours
Float set point: 27.3 volts.
Float time limit: 14 hours (manufacturer said "it could be forever")
refloat set point: 27.3 volts
equalize set point: 29.4 volts
equalize time period: 12 hours (Manufacturer said "No longer than 18 hours")

What other entries are critical? Do these entries seem right to you?
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby SandyP on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:19 pm

Let us know what readings you now get in your daily logging data from the FM80, specifically the MaxV and the Absorb time.

It looks like the Absorb set point was previously set at 26.9V and the default time of only 1 hour.
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:38 pm

Hi, this week my readings have been the following:

Max 31.5V ABS 01:03
Max 28.1 ABS 00:00
Max 30.4 ABS 01:03
Max 30.1 ABS 01:00

The second day is the day i didn´t turn the inverter off, which is why it read 00:00. The other days I turned the inverter off and it seems to have charged for an hour during the day and apparently "recharged" to 100%.

If I leave the inverter "on" the batteries only discharge.

Should this work like this? Or should the batteries be able to recharge with the inverter always on?
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby SandyP on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:13 pm

RobC wrote:.../...

Should this work like this? Or should the batteries be able to recharge with the inverter always on?


Yes, provided you are not using more power than the solar panels are producing then with the inverter on the batteries will get some charge.

Even though you changed the absorb time to a max of 5 hours it is still only absorbing for the default of 1 hour - where did you make the absorb time change?

I suggest making absorb time change using the menu / buttons on your FlexMax charge controller, also disconnect the FlexNet DC as this is a common area where charge control settings are overriden/ignored.
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:45 pm

Thanks again! I made the absorb time changes in the Mate in ADV - FX - CHGR menu i think (I will need to double check and get back to on that).

I will try disconnecting the flexnet dc... will i need to reconnect it at a later stage?
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby blackswan555 on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:34 pm

You have made the changes in JUST the inverter, You also need to program the FM (solar charge controller) You can do it from the mate by selecting the Port the FM is in, then go from there, If you are not that familiar with Mate, You can do it direct on FM, A little less confusing and same result :smile:

Yes disconnect FNDC data cable either from it or on Hub end, Yes it will get plugged back in later,

A comment, 29.4v seems a little high for AGM, You may want to double check that,

Tim
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:28 pm

Hi Tim, thanks! Have made those changes on the FM.

The manufacturer told me that each battery is 14.7. As they are in series I doubled that number... Does that sound right?

Thanks for your time and help!
RobC
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My RE system: Flex Power One, DC Flex Net, Flex Max and Mate.
2 x EnerSys Powersafe AGM 12v 105fs batteries 105 amp
2 x EcoDelta high performance 72 cell polychystalline solar photovoltaic module ECO-315P

Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:37 pm

Hello, so I have been observing the system over the last 10 days or so... It generally floats for 7-9 hours each day but not once did it absorb... When the flex net dc goes down, I unplug it and plug it back in and it returns to demonstrate 100%. All of the time the green light on the flex one's body is showing battery full. So i have energy, everything is working but I don't know how to get the flex net dc and mate to show accurate numbers? Thanks for your suggestions and time!
RobC
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2 x EcoDelta high performance 72 cell polychystalline solar photovoltaic module ECO-315P

Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby SandyP on Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:04 pm

The process of unplugging and reconnecting the FNDC will automatically reset the battery SoC to 100% even if the batteries are not at this level!

Have you changed the absorb voltage setting in the FM80 charge controller?

The only way I can see that you get floating without absorb is :

1) that you have your absorb voltage set lower than your float voltage and/or,

2) You are using very little power and the voltage in the morning is higher than your float voltage.

What are each of the charge settings in your FlexMax charge controller?

Absorb set point: ?volts
Absorb time limit: ? hours
Float set point: ? volts.
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:20 pm

Hi, I do use very little power. Only a few led lights for an hour or so at night. I made te change in the fm80.

Absorb set point: 29.4v
Absorb time limit: 5 hours
Float set point: 27.3 volts.
Float time limit: 14 hours (manufacturer said "it could be forever")

These are settings I have put into the fm80.

Saturday rained all day and the battery was in mppt bulk all day and never floated nor absorbed. The only times I have witnessed absorb is when I have turned off the inverter from the mate.

Thanks for your time and thoughts!
RobC
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2 x EcoDelta high performance 72 cell polychystalline solar photovoltaic module ECO-315P

Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby Mike Curran on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Fyi, "MPPT Bulk" indicates your system is trying to reach the absorb stage - bulk is when your charger is trying to drive the battery voltage up to the absorb setpoint. Since it was raining/no sun, it could not reach it . Was your inverter turned on at this time? If so, sounds like system was operating normally.
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:47 pm

Yes! The inverter was on.

Regarding the inverter, should the system produce a humming/buzzing sound when the inverter is on?
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby Mike Curran on Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:42 pm

There's a big transformer in there, a slight hum is normal.
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Westinghouse Solar: 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters. 6,450 nameplate watts AC, grid-tied.

Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:15 am

Thanks!

What I have observed is that the Mate is always reading "Discharging"

It reads discharging even when their is sun and i have nothing turned on in the house.

When the flex net dc reaches the flashing red light, i unplug it, and that way it returns to all green lights and 100%.

This is clearly not the way I would like it to work.

What might be the reason that the mate is always reading "discharging"?

I have only ever seen it read recharging when i have turned off the inverter.

thankyou for your time and thoughts!
RobC
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Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:24 pm
My RE system: Flex Power One, DC Flex Net, Flex Max and Mate.
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2 x EcoDelta high performance 72 cell polychystalline solar photovoltaic module ECO-315P

Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby SandyP on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:44 am

RobC wrote:....
When the flex net dc reaches the flashing red light, i unplug it, and that way it returns to all green lights and 100%.
....
thankyou for your time and thoughts!


Please just leave the FlexNet DC unplugged for the moment and see if your system's behaviour changes.
Also check what your loads are as it is clear that much of what your solar panels are producing is being used preventing the batteries ever getting to the absorb set point. The inverter itself puts a load on the batteries just being turned on.
I suspect you need to double the number of solar panels that you have.
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Victron BMV-602s
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Re: Batteries only recharging if i turn the invertor off

Postby RobC on Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:34 pm

Great! Thanks for your help. I will try that and will try adding more panels in the future.
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