Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery (solved)

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mexsudo
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Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery (solved)

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:50 pm

Grid went down at 2:24 am, system automatically switched to the battery, so far so good.
(actually it was a brownout for much of that time, my Mate was showing the grid running at about 20 volts.)
Grid came back on line at 7:59 am.
Battery went down to 49.2 volts

at about 6:45 I started getting a trickle from my panels, just 0.04 kw

Issue: After the Grid came up, the Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery.

I had to wait until my PV charged the battery first. WTF?

Now (nearly 6 pm), my battery is at 53.2 volts, and Selling.

I poked thru my Inverter and Charge Controller settings, nothing was changed, everything seems fine.
I did note that on my Mate3S Load Grid Transfer is disabled. I assume that was the default.
Should I enable Load Grid Transfer? I do not believe it ever has been, nor do I understand what that does.

Thanks

PS: it's Really Important that my battery gets charged from the Grid if available, and not wait for a sunny day.
Back to back outages are common, and full outage (dead battery) is not acceptable.

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom. Peter
Load Grid Transfer 2020-09-06 17-46-14.png
Graph 2020-09-06 17-48-41.png
Last edited by mexsudo on Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

raysun
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Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by raysun » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Outback inverters have seven input modes, one of which - Grid Zero - will not charge from the grid. Mini-grid will optionally charge from the grid if configured to do so.

What input mode is being used?

Mike Curran
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Posts: 1803
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by Mike Curran » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:23 pm

What is your inverter's rebulk voltage setting? If it is set too low your inverter won't start a bulk charge.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:28 pm

it is set to Grid Tied
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 pm

Re-Bulk Voltage is at the Default: 48 VDC
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:35 pm

about 20 minutes after the Grid was restored it went to Bulk Charging then after a moment to Float Charging.
repeat for several hours.

My dashboard and the Mate display never showed any power from the grid until the battery was full (from the panels)
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by raysun » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:44 pm

mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:35 pm
about 20 minutes after the Grid was restored it went to Bulk Charging then after a moment to Float Charging.
repeat for several hours.

My dashboard and the Mate display never showed any power from the grid until the battery was full (from the panels)
During the time the grid was up, and not charging thd battery, did you try manually starting a charge cycle, via the Charger button on the Mate?

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1803
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 - replaced MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 Talesun 275W in series (DC array input to SB inverter/charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input (manual switch during grid outage only) from 14 Talesun 275W,
Enphase M215 microinverters, normally direct grid tied

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by Mike Curran » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:45 pm

mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 pm
Re-Bulk Voltage is at the Default: 48 VDC
Since your battery only got down to 49 volts your inverter never reached the rebulk setting. If you want it to charge from grid when battery gets down to 49 volts the rebulk must be at least 49 volts.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:52 pm

raysun wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:44 pm
mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:35 pm
about 20 minutes after the Grid was restored it went to Bulk Charging then after a moment to Float Charging.
repeat for several hours.

My dashboard and the Mate display never showed any power from the grid until the battery was full (from the panels)
During the time the grid was up, and not charging thd battery, did you try manually starting a charge cycle, via the Charger button on the Mate?
no, I did not. I just observed and waited.
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by raysun » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:45 pm
mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 pm
Re-Bulk Voltage is at the Default: 48 VDC
Since your battery only got down to 49 volts your inverter never reached the rebulk setting. If you want it to charge from grid when battery gets down to 49 volts the rebulk must be at least 49 volts.
REBULK voltage does indeed trigger a new Bulk charge cycle (among other things.)

Manually starting a Bulk charge will also reset the charge cycle for the inverter charger.

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:01 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:45 pm
mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 pm
Re-Bulk Voltage is at the Default: 48 VDC
Since your battery only got down to 49 volts your inverter never reached the rebulk setting. If you want it to charge from grid when battery gets down to 49 volts the rebulk must be at least 49 volts.
OK, I think I get that. Thanks!
Both the charge controller and the Inverter are set to 48 (indicated as default settings)

in hind sight, I was OK, just alarmed that the outage could continue or repeat multiple times before it was full...exactly as it happened last year before I doubled the battery.
Typically I run at 52 volts all night... that is my comfort zone.
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:04 pm

raysun wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm
Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:45 pm
mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 pm
Re-Bulk Voltage is at the Default: 48 VDC
Since your battery only got down to 49 volts your inverter never reached the rebulk setting. If you want it to charge from grid when battery gets down to 49 volts the rebulk must be at least 49 volts.
REBULK voltage does indeed trigger a new Bulk charge cycle (among other things.)

Manually starting a Bulk charge will also reset the charge cycle for the inverter charger.
thanks for the confirmation.
I reset the inverter to rebulk at 50.8
I do want this to be as "automatic" as possible. We are often unaware of issues, or I am not at home.
Thanks all!
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

raysun
Forum Emperor
Posts: 2991
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:57 am
My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by raysun » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:16 pm

mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:04 pm
raysun wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm
Mike Curran wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:45 pm

Since your battery only got down to 49 volts your inverter never reached the rebulk setting. If you want it to charge from grid when battery gets down to 49 volts the rebulk must be at least 49 volts.
REBULK voltage does indeed trigger a new Bulk charge cycle (among other things.)

Manually starting a Bulk charge will also reset the charge cycle for the inverter charger.
thanks for the confirmation.
I think I may reset the inverter to rebulk at 50, maybe 51...
I do want this to be as "automatic" as possible. We are often unaware of issues, or I am not at home.
Thanks all!
Be mindful of being too "enthusiatic" about ratcheting up the REBULK voltage.

For the charge controllers, REBULK also calculates how much time is needed for the Absorb phase. It may well do the same for the inverter charger, but I've not researched that.

With an AGM battery, overmuch Absorb will lead to loss of electrolyte, so its good to approach that phase conservatively.

If using Global Charge - Auto Charge Termination Control via the FNDC and Mate, the proper Charged Return Amps setting can provide a safety net from overcharging.

User avatar
mexsudo
Forum Guru
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:40 pm
My RE system: 8 290 watt panels: Canadian Solar CS3K-290P
8 AGM 12v 115Ah batteries: Duravolt DGG115-2 (48 volt)
Inverter: Outback VFXR3648A, 3600VA
Charge Controller: Outback FLEXmax 60, FM60-150VDC
System Display and Controller: Outback MATE3s
Location: Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico

Re: Inverter was not connecting to the grid to charge the battery

Post by mexsudo » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:26 pm

raysun wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:16 pm
mexsudo wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:04 pm
raysun wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:57 pm


REBULK voltage does indeed trigger a new Bulk charge cycle (among other things.)

Manually starting a Bulk charge will also reset the charge cycle for the inverter charger.
thanks for the confirmation.
I think I may reset the inverter to rebulk at 50, maybe 51...
I do want this to be as "automatic" as possible. We are often unaware of issues, or I am not at home.
Thanks all!
Be mindful of being too "enthusiatic" about ratcheting up the REBULK voltage.

For the charge controllers, REBULK also calculates how much time is needed for the Absorb phase. It may well do the same for the inverter charger, but I've not researched that.

With an AGM battery, overmuch Absorb will lead to loss of electrolyte, so its good to approach that phase conservatively.

If using Global Charge - Auto Charge Termination Control via the FNDC and Mate, the proper Charged Return Amps setting can provide a safety net from overcharging.
Thanks! I think I am OK. I just checked, my other inverter settings remained the same as before
peter ehlert (mexsudo)

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