Can only charge battery bank with AC input

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IAmDone
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 pm
My RE system: 72-295w Sunmodule + mono, 4-Midnight Classic CCs, 2-Radian GS8048As, 24-2v 1150Ah Fullriver Batteries, 1-FNDC

Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IAmDone » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:15 am

With clear blue sunny mid-day skies, the only way my system charges the batteries is with the AC input... this should not be with a 21kw array. The AC will charge the battery bank, then, once the batteries are charged, anything above 53.2V it will offset the load. If I drop the AC, the system will invert but not charge... why? The charge controller are on and in solar mode and seem to be working great.

Mate3s shows AC coupling is enabled, but the Outback Power local software shows AC coupling is disabled... why?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Mike Curran
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My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 repl'd MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied, no longer AC- coupled

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 modules

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by Mike Curran » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:07 am

See Raysun's advice in this post about setting your charge controller's voltage setpoints 0.4 volts higher than your inverter's: http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic ... 200#p68200
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

IAmDone
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Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 pm
My RE system: 72-295w Sunmodule + mono, 4-Midnight Classic CCs, 2-Radian GS8048As, 24-2v 1150Ah Fullriver Batteries, 1-FNDC

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IAmDone » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:49 pm

Mike,

Thank you for your reply!

I believe I am mistaken and should change the title... my CCs do not communicate with the mate3s... so, when I put the system into a bulk charge, the Radians draw from the AC according to opticsre... they also do this overnight and it makes no sense to me to use the AC to charge then turn around and offset anything above 53.7v... when I disconnect from the AC, my charge controllers wake and give anywhere from 4 to 12 kw then go back to float with very few watts, but I think that's because the batteries are at 99% and with a small load...

But the question is, if my CCs can produce that many watts on a clear sky day, why can't I sell it? The best I get is offsetting the load with .2 kw and below...

Below are a couple of other things

Opticsre shows AC coupling is enabled, yet, the Outback Power (local network software) shows AC coupling is disabled???

Another thing, I have offset the CCs to equal that of the battery voltage and have calibrated the inverters' voltage to all be correct, yet, when looking at the voltage hotkey on the mate3s it always 1 and varying tenths volts above the true battery voltage readings... I took it to 100% charge then reset the FNDC to try to bring it inline with the true battery v to no avail... I don't know if this is temp comp or even an issue, maybe you can tell me.

Sorry, I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to this, I'm frustrated not being able to sell what I produce like it used to.

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IanMcCluskey
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Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IanMcCluskey » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:43 pm

Hello, I can help with this specific question: "Opticsre shows AC coupling is enabled, yet, the Outback Power (local network software) shows AC coupling is disabled???"

There are two AC Coupled settings - one is under the MATE3(s) gateway settings for the old, ROCB hardware-based. The new, frequency shifting AC coupling firmware is under the Radian Inverter settings. The second is only accessible through the 4-digit installer level password on the gateway. Since you are using charge controllers, you should make sure both of those settings are turned off to NO.

By the way, I do not see any site on OPTICS named Iam Done.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

Mike Curran
Forum Emperor
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:28 pm
My RE system: Outback - Garage roof:
- 8 (2x4) Evergreen 180's into one FM80 (2007/2020 repl'd MX60)
- 6 (2×3) ALEO S79-300's into one FM80 (2017)
- 2 grid-tied GVFX3524's classic stacked for 120/240VAC (2007)
- 12 Surrette/Rolls 2V x 1766Ah (2007)
- Hub10.3, Mate3s, FNDC, RTS, OpticsRE. Tigo Energy ES maximizers on each PV module.

Westinghouse Solar - Barn roof: (2012)
- 30 (2x15) 235W panels with Enphase M215 microinverters, grid-tied, no longer AC- coupled

Outback Skybox - Barn roof: (2019)
- 14 (2x7) Talesun 275W (DC array input to SB charger)
- 3 SimpliPhi 3.8 batteries, 48V, 225Ah total
- AC coupled input from 14 Talesun 275W, Enphase M215 modules

All self-designed and self-installed
Location: Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by Mike Curran » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:47 pm

First I want to say to all other forum users, please feel free to chime in on this.

Now, I'm not knowledgeable about how the Midnite charge controllers interact with OB equipment nor how they're set up to sell. But make sure the float and absorb settings on your Midnites are set 0.4 volts higher than the Radian's corresponding settings.

You say at the end it used to sell. What changed? Do you have a remote temperature sensor ("RTS") connected between your Radian and the batteries? If so, that could explain the voltage discrepancy.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

IAmDone
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 pm
My RE system: 72-295w Sunmodule + mono, 4-Midnight Classic CCs, 2-Radian GS8048As, 24-2v 1150Ah Fullriver Batteries, 1-FNDC

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IAmDone » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:04 pm

Mike and Ian,

Thank you for the help!

My site name is Smilin'D on opticsre...

I did set the Radians to be .4v below the CCs but it made no difference... because my CCs do not interface with Mate3s so it only shows charging done by the inverters

I have set AC coupling within the mate3s under the installer settings but not under the gateway... my understanding was that AC coupling was needed to work properly with the grid and to switch to invert in case of power outage?

It worked very well for a few months, then there was a surge, (I'm thinking high voltage with low amps... my breakers would have stopped it if it were high amps. But, I don't know) back in late 2017 that knocked out everything in the house that had a capacitor, filling the house with thick smoke, and it damaged a brand-new Carrier 5 ton heat pump (Carrier replaced free...TG)... the system has never worked the same since then... I just want my system to work properly!

Thanks again,
John

jbakker
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7 banks of 14 cells each from a 2017 Chevy Volt. Parallel for the AMP Hour. 7 Chinese made BMS systems.
Location: Goderich Ontario Canada

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by jbakker » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:35 am

Mike is correct is setting the MidNite unit at .4 volts. I use a Midnite unit and a Outback unit. I do not sell back to the grid. I also have the Midnite ran through its own current shunt that is feed to the FNDC that I have. I have 3 current shunts installed. Once for the FM 60 the second for the Midnite and the 3rd one is for the 2 inverters that I have. So Optics RE controls both the inverters and the FM60 but can only see what the Midnite is putting into the system.
Hope this info helps you out.


Good luck with you system.


I wish i had more sun here in the winter..............oh well longer days are coming soon now that winter solstice is here.

IAmDone
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Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 pm
My RE system: 72-295w Sunmodule + mono, 4-Midnight Classic CCs, 2-Radian GS8048As, 24-2v 1150Ah Fullriver Batteries, 1-FNDC

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IAmDone » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:49 pm

Jbakker,

Thank you for the reply!

I have three shunts, but only two are utilized. Are you saying that opricsre can read what your midnites are imputing into the batteries by utilizing the third shunt?

Thanks

jbakker
Forum Guru
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:47 am
My RE system: 2 VFX3648 Inverters 2 FM60 150VDC Charge Controllers Mate3 3.4 KW of panels 15kw JC Onan NG Generator made in 1975 I love that generator almost as much as my wife.
7 banks of 14 cells each from a 2017 Chevy Volt. Parallel for the AMP Hour. 7 Chinese made BMS systems.
Location: Goderich Ontario Canada

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by jbakker » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:36 pm

The FNDC can see input coming from the Midnites. I have each of the shunts named in Optics RE.
It does not show on the OPTICS RE graphic as power going in but it does know there is power going in.
I'm sure that smarter people than me will have a better answer.

Good luck with your system.

raysun
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Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by raysun » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:23 am

jbakker wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:36 pm
The FNDC can see input coming from the Midnites. I have each of the shunts named in Optics RE.
It does not show on the OPTICS RE graphic as power going in but it does know there is power going in.
I'm sure that smarter people than me will have a better answer.

Good luck with your system.
That's the answer!

The FNDC is a "coloumb counter" tracking current into and out of the battery. A third shunt for the Midnight Classic controllers will show the net addition to the battery charge.

Optics RE can't get the advanced information (charge cycle phase, etc.), nor issue and commands to the controllers, but the current flow into the battery will show in the relevant pages.

IAmDone
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Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:38 pm
My RE system: 72-295w Sunmodule + mono, 4-Midnight Classic CCs, 2-Radian GS8048As, 24-2v 1150Ah Fullriver Batteries, 1-FNDC

Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IAmDone » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:50 am

Raysun,

Thank you for the clarification...

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IanMcCluskey
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Re: Can only charge battery bank with AC input

Post by IanMcCluskey » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:44 am

Hi IAmDone, I just noticed I missed a correction to your Dec 18th post.

You're system is DC Coupled with charge controllers. You have no grid-dependent inverter tied to the Radian, known as AC Coupling. Therefore, you should disable AC Coupling in the settings.

AC Coupling has nothing to do with the Radian switching to battery power in an outage.
Ian McCluskey
Product Manager


Alpha Technologies Inc. / OutBack Power Technologies
3767 Alpha Way Bellingham WA 98226 USA
http://www.alpha.com

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