Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

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Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Djohnyvonne on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:37 pm

I am designing a photovoltaic system that will be off-grid. I will have 48-Silfab SLA280M Modules, 2-Outback Radian GS8048A inverter/chargers, Mate 3, Hub 10.3, 4-Outback Flexmax FM-80 Charge Controllers, 48-Trojan LRE-2V/1110Ah Batteries, 2-MNPV12 Combiner Boxes, Outback RTS Bttery Sensor, Outback FN-D/C Monitor and a Predator 8750 Generator.(please, no wise cracks about the generator)
My question involves the Load Centers. I will be using 1-GSLC175-PV-12/240 Pre-Wired Load Center. For the second load center what would be the logical choice? The GSLC Load Center could be used and use unused portions from the GS175-PV-12/240 Load Center. If I go this route what other components besides 2-PNL-80-DC Breakers would I need to purchase? The installation manual for the Load Center mentions the GSLC Load Center as the correct model to use with more than 1 inverter, but fails to describe the exact parts for the thousands of possible combinations.
Referencing the Outback wiring diagram for North American Dual Radian(http://outbackpower.com/downloads/docum ... radian.pdf) it again is not cut and dry upon configuration of Load Centers.

*Is it possible to wire one Load Center for the DC portions & wire the other Load Center for AC portions?
*Do all 4 Charge Controllers get mounted on the right side, 2 for Load Center/2 for Inverter?
*In regards to Maintenance Bypass Lockout, this is what the installation manual says: "OutBack does not offer a solution for bypassing multiple inverters. However, electrical suppliers offer both manual and automatic double-pole, double-throw bypass switches in a range of sizes and options. These are highly recommended for systems larger than a single inverter."
That being said, can you suggest an acceptable switch for my application?
*The Outback GSLC Load Center Series has many disconnects & protection devices. Are these considered to be all that is needed to comply with AJH code?
*This photovoltaic system is going to be implemented on raw land with home to be built. That being said, I was considering doing a ground ring for the earth ground. Question is, should it be around the home, the equipment shed that all equipment & batteries will be in, or both?

Thank you in advance for your help & comments!
Djohnyvonne
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm
My RE system: 2-GS8048A INVERTERS, 2-GSLC 175-PV-12/240 LOAD CENTERS, 4-FLEXNET FM-80 MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLERS, MATE 3, FN-DC MONITOR, HUB 10.3, SILFAB SLA280M MODULES, 2-MNPV12 COMBINER BOXES, 48- TROJAN LRE 2V 1110Ah BATTERIES, IRON RIDGE GROUND MOUNTS

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Katee on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:05 am

Hello there,

I just designed a dual Radian system for a DIY customer of mine in central Washington, and I'll be happy to share with you some advice. To avoid redundant breakers, and other items, along with added cost, you will want to start with two bare "GSLC" load centers. Anything beyond one Radian, the load centers will become custom, so you will then choose the breakers you specifically need. Since you are off grid, you do not need the grid input breakers unless there is some sort of possibility of integrating grid power in the future. I would recommend the following components to successfully parallel two OutBack Radian inverters: (2) GSLC, (4) MidNite MNEDC175, (4) OutBack PNL-50D-AC-120/240, (4) MidNite MNEDC80, (1) OutBack PNL-GFDI-80Q, and (2) FW-CCB2's. I didn't see any brackets on your parts list, but you will also want the FW-MB3 to mount your Mate3 and I highly recommend the MidNite MNSPD300-DC surge protectors for each one of your FM80 charge controllers. Also, I suggest mounting all four charge controllers to one Radian which will make your wiring easier if all four CC's are going to the same spot.

The transfer switch I sourced from a local electrical supplier, and you will need a minimum of 100A at 120/240V. To save in cost, I chose a manual transfer switch as opposed to an automatic and here is some info for you: https://www.thomsonps.com/Transfer_Switches/TS_870/ There will be both AC and DC breakers in each one of the load centers, so you can't separate them to answer your question.

I actually use to work for OutBack Power for over 8 years, and 7 of which was in their technical support department. I now work for a solar installation company who does encourage DIY customers as well. With my off grid and OutBack Power expertise, I can successfully design theses systems and offer you competitive pricing. My technical services are also available to our customers :smile:

Cheers,
Katee Wood
Fire Mountain Solar
360-422-5610
Katee
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Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Djohnyvonne on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:05 am

Thank you for your comments Katee. I got this wiring diagram from Outback resources for dual radian. Minus the grid in and grid out portions, would this be the correct wiring?
http://outbackpower.com/downloads/docum ... radian.pdf

Thank you again.
Djohnyvonne
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm
My RE system: 2-GS8048A INVERTERS, 2-GSLC 175-PV-12/240 LOAD CENTERS, 4-FLEXNET FM-80 MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLERS, MATE 3, FN-DC MONITOR, HUB 10.3, SILFAB SLA280M MODULES, 2-MNPV12 COMBINER BOXES, 48- TROJAN LRE 2V 1110Ah BATTERIES, IRON RIDGE GROUND MOUNTS

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Djohnyvonne on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:25 am

What about the TBB's? The GS-SBUS as well. Yes, I have ordered all the brackets, I forgot to include them in my description.
Would the lightening arrestors be attached to the GSLC body? Thanks again.
Djohnyvonne
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm
My RE system: 2-GS8048A INVERTERS, 2-GSLC 175-PV-12/240 LOAD CENTERS, 4-FLEXNET FM-80 MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLERS, MATE 3, FN-DC MONITOR, HUB 10.3, SILFAB SLA280M MODULES, 2-MNPV12 COMBINER BOXES, 48- TROJAN LRE 2V 1110Ah BATTERIES, IRON RIDGE GROUND MOUNTS

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Katee on Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:44 pm

What about the TBB's? The GS-SBUS as well. Yes, I have ordered all the brackets, I forgot to include them in my description.
Would the lightening arrestors be attached to the GSLC body? Thanks again.


All the TBB's are included in the bare GSLC, please reference Page 7 Figure 3 of the install manual: http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Make_the_Power/radian_gs_load_center/gs_loadcenter_install.pdf

The lightning arrestors would mount directly to your solar combiner boxes.

Thank you for your comments Katee. I got this wiring diagram from Outback resources for dual radian. Minus the grid in and grid out portions, would this be the correct wiring?
http://outbackpower.com/downloads/docum ... radian.pd


This is exactly what you need, good find.

Let me know if you would like a quote, I can get you really good pricing :cool:

All the best,
Katee Wood
Fire Mountain Solar
360-422-5610
Katee
Junior Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:22 am

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Djohnyvonne on Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:20 pm

Katee:
Thank you again for your help, it is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, the company I purchased my system from doesn't have the capability of providing one line drawings. In my haste, I found a company online. Again unfortunately, they deal almost exclusively with grid tied systems. I've had to help them through everything, and I don't know jack-____ when it comes to designing this kind of stuff. I rely upon internet and the kindness of experts such as you to get me through.
Would it be possible to make a simple drawing of where you would place items within the load centers? If not, I understand, and am still very grateful for the help you have supplied.
Djohnyvonne
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm
My RE system: 2-GS8048A INVERTERS, 2-GSLC 175-PV-12/240 LOAD CENTERS, 4-FLEXNET FM-80 MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLERS, MATE 3, FN-DC MONITOR, HUB 10.3, SILFAB SLA280M MODULES, 2-MNPV12 COMBINER BOXES, 48- TROJAN LRE 2V 1110Ah BATTERIES, IRON RIDGE GROUND MOUNTS

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby blackswan555 on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:24 pm

A quick question, Why are you going with
48-Trojan LRE-2V/1110Ah Batteries,
? You would be better off with 24 x approx 2220AH ? ( less cells, less service, possibly cheaper, and no balance problems)

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
blackswan555
OutBack Emperor
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:50 am
Location: Ibiza Spain,
My RE system: Other peoples, VFX "E" versions, FLA`s, Generators.

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Djohnyvonne on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:10 pm

Tim:
The Radian inverters are designed for 48 volt battery banks.
Are you suggesting a 2 volt battery with 2220 AH like a Rolls Surette battery?
Djohnyvonne
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm
My RE system: 2-GS8048A INVERTERS, 2-GSLC 175-PV-12/240 LOAD CENTERS, 4-FLEXNET FM-80 MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLERS, MATE 3, FN-DC MONITOR, HUB 10.3, SILFAB SLA280M MODULES, 2-MNPV12 COMBINER BOXES, 48- TROJAN LRE 2V 1110Ah BATTERIES, IRON RIDGE GROUND MOUNTS

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby blackswan555 on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:34 pm

Are you suggesting a 2 volt battery with 2220 AH like a Rolls Surette battery?
Yes they would be a good choice, More expensive than most but in my opinion, worth it if you are "in for the long term" I have a client with that set that I nearly wrote off about 5 years ago, The system was built badly in a no vent room and no temp compensation on batteries , Ambient in the 50sC & Badly programmed, Sometimes 3 gen runs a day, They had melted the hydrocaps and warped the inner casings !!, They are still going strong today,,,, much to my surprise,,

To add
a Predator 8750 Generator.(please, no wise cracks about the generator)
Not sure about wise cracks :smile: But do you realise how undersized it is ? With 2200 ah of batteries you are going to be wanting to run both Radians flat out on gen charge to give you around 10% of 20hr rated capacity, They alone without "house loads" taken into account are going to want more than that can provide (A realistic 6.5 KVA,,,, for probably not long,,,)

Tim
My comments are based on my experience and research, They are not endorsed or checked by Outback.I am an independent British electrician living in Spain, So please take this into account when reading /acting on my post`s.
blackswan555
OutBack Emperor
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:50 am
Location: Ibiza Spain,
My RE system: Other peoples, VFX "E" versions, FLA`s, Generators.

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Djohnyvonne on Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:29 pm

Tim:
I agree, a better choice of back up power would be ideal. However, I am on a limited budget, no income, so 30% tax credit is unusable. Trojan was purchased strictly on $$$. They will be in a conditioned room with 48 volt battery ventilators. Generator will indeed need replaced. We live in high desert with sunshine 99% of time.
Djohnyvonne
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:35 pm
My RE system: 2-GS8048A INVERTERS, 2-GSLC 175-PV-12/240 LOAD CENTERS, 4-FLEXNET FM-80 MPPT CHARGE CONTROLLERS, MATE 3, FN-DC MONITOR, HUB 10.3, SILFAB SLA280M MODULES, 2-MNPV12 COMBINER BOXES, 48- TROJAN LRE 2V 1110Ah BATTERIES, IRON RIDGE GROUND MOUNTS

Re: Help With Off-Grid 2-GSLC Load Centers

Postby Katee on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:45 am

Djohnyvonne wrote:Katee:
Thank you again for your help, it is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, the company I purchased my system from doesn't have the capability of providing one line drawings. In my haste, I found a company online. Again unfortunately, they deal almost exclusively with grid tied systems. I've had to help them through everything, and I don't know jack-____ when it comes to designing this kind of stuff. I rely upon internet and the kindness of experts such as you to get me through.
Would it be possible to make a simple drawing of where you would place items within the load centers? If not, I understand, and am still very grateful for the help you have supplied.



Good morning,

I apologize for not getting back to you on this sooner, I was offline most of the weekend.

To be honest, your best resource is the single line drawing you've already found. I know the engineer who created that, so please reference that for wiring purposes. If you are just looking for advice on the layout, I would install both Radian's side by side, and then all four charge controllers on the right most Radian. If you are purchasing two CCB2's, the Radian can accommodate two controllers on the top, and two controllers in the mid section. This is my personal preference, even though you may have to customize the conduit a little bit for the upper charge controllers. I actually tried to find a photo for your to reference but didn't have much luck.
Katee
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Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:22 am


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